Is there a place on line where people can review both the petition and the remonstrance so the points can be read "at leisure" before someone appears on their doorstep or calls on the phone? I have already been approached and could not make an informed decision without fully reading both documents with contact info for each "camp" so individual could then choose which they would like to support.

In truth, I wish that there was only one form, laying out both sides of the issue, where a person could read and then make their choice, but that is not how the law is written.

And again, tell me how making our buildings equal and safe will hurt graduation rates???

I am very active in the process. I am heading up the committee for NCMS. I am involved.

SP:

That is GREAT. I sincerely mean it. Doesn't matter if we disagree on points so long as we are engaged in the process. That truly is the American way. That is exactly what I've been trying to get across this whole time. Have a great day.

A little FYI if you will. no employee can sign either way on while on school property

Mr. Southworth,

With all due respect - can you please help me understand your qualifications to 'fix our education system'?

Don't get me wrong - everyone is entitled to an opinion. However, opinions are just that - opinions. Like everyone else, you are certainly entitled to yours.

However, I agree wholeheartedly with Mr. Allen's recent letter to the editor - I voted for our administrators because of their experience, their backgrounds, and their capability to make these kinds of decisions. I support the administration. Do I think they're perfect - no. Do I think our school system is perfect - no. I trust our leadership - that's why we put them there. Is it a blind trust - no. But it is one based on reason and logic. Frankly, there is no evidence whatsoever that they are being misleading or negligent in any way.

What exactly are your qualifications? You're not on the school board. I'm not saying that you don't have any qualifications - but what are they? I do realize you were a Marine which would fully qualify you I'm certain to storm a small city or impose martial law. But what exactly is your expertise in education? Do you have a background in education or education administration? You speak as if you are an expert - perhaps you are. But I'd like to understand if your opinions are backed up by experience or simply sideline observations.

-vor

I am trying to word this as tactfully as possible. Being a Marine and using big words makes you an an authority? E GADS!

LOL........"Father Knows Best" went off the air ages ago. To those who think that our elected officials or our employees always make decisions that are in the best interest of all of us, well, it is time to wake up. They are as prone to error as the rest of us and are as frail as the next human being.

Neither my life experience nor my vocabulary makes me an authority on anything. Nothing makes anyone an authority on anything except someone else's perception that they are an authority.

I have seen far too many people in positions of authority that were beyond their capabilities and where their lack of judgement actually endangered both lives and missions to place much credence in their decisions without looking at the facts for myself.

Actually to add to ClayCountyguy's comments about closing schools...I was on a committee about 7-8[might even have been further back but no more than 12 years as we have lived here 13] years ago that looked at changing elementary school district lines and the density numbers at the elementary and high schools. All the numbers pointed to sending some of the Jackson students down to Clay City HS as Clay City HS, but not the elementary, was under populated at the time, and closing Eastside and redistributing those students to Meridian, Forest Park and some possibly to Van Buren on the very East side of town as population in the city had decreased and there was no projection on new housing to change that due to current building density in town. Eastside then would replace the much decrepit Central office so that building would no longer have to be maintained and the alternative school could also be housed at Eastside along with the future plans for a preschool center. I remember the much heated discussions and at least one teacher on the committee being adamant that we needed to keep all the schools open because a change in location would be harmful to the students enrolled, while it had already been shown via the special needs students that attended Forest Park that within weeks they take ownership of their "new" school and it was the parents who took longer to adjust to the change. So due to lack of board support to go against nostalgia factor, Eastside remained open [continued school maintenance and administrative costs], we are still maintaining Central office building[big "$cha ching$" there due to its age]. We built Cumberland Academy[additional maintenance costs as well as I believe an administrator] which only houses no more than a dozen or two students at a time [reports that it is utilized by about 60 students a year but hardly ever for more than a marking period at a time for most it serves] and rented THEN purchased the building on Jackson st [former drug store]for what is now the preschool [more maintenance costs]. We all need to ask to see the current numbers as far as building capacity verses actual usage before we put any more money into any building and if numbers warrant it, put nostalgia aside and think with our heads about the smartest way to spend our money to teach these kids. Schools open and close and district lines change all the time all over the country and kids go on learning. We can even look at cost models of new schools in the state and see if remodeling vs building a new one might be more cost effective as some have recently done. Why is this so hard to get one's head around locally? I remember when part of that committee I used my own children as examples of adapting well to a move to a new school saying that I had moved to the area with a child between K and 1st and another between grade 3 and 4 and within weeks they had adapted. I still remember one teacher on the committee saying that She would "never do that to her child" like I was some sort of neglectful parent for moving. At that point I knew I was fighting a lost cause. Not until more get on board to demand a look into what is needed, not just want each person wants to recapture from the good old days, will we be assured that we are spending our money wisely and that the board and administration isn't just putting this plan into effect because they have been left with no other option given the regressive nature of thinking by a section of the community. I do not look upon it as being for one side or another, but just looking at it from a different perspective as all are trying to at least maintain, if not improve, education here. We are just in such tight economic times that our choices to spend money have to be so much more exacting and not compromised to appease the whims of unnecessary spending. From what I understand of the remonstrance, it isn't to stop building improvement plans. It's only to not proceed with them until more facts and gathered and examined and more questions are allowed to be asked...and are answered. In the end this might be the best option for the present but many feel that all options have not yet been considered. I urge all to ask these density and capacity questions as well as the building upkeep and administrative cost of each building so maybe they will post them on their site or put the information in the paper so all can make a truly informed decision. Until then however, from my personal experience of being part of a committee that was too biased with nostalgia to make a responsible fiscal decision that regarded only the quality of education and regards for the taxpayer, I can not afford to blindly support something without looking into facts of its justification further and would not sign their petition. Have a good day. Hope to see some of you at the board meeting tonight if you can make it.

Sassypants:

Honestly though, complete security is a state of mind and truly an impossible goal to reach completely. First of all the human element makes it imperfect as we already have security measures in place at our schools that are not being followed or contain gaps that allow for possible problems. I admit that we need to do more in some areas but to think that spending money on a specific safety program will completely provide 100% safety is unrealistic. We will always have safety and security issues so long as we let people occupy buildings. Take the no backpack rule at Northview for instance. Put into effect for reasons of "safety" it states that students can't carry their backpacks around the school, however they are allowed to bring them into the school and store them in their lockers. So what does this achieve? In actuality I imagine it alleviates the clutter in the classrooms and concealment of items which are not allowed in the classroom such as cell phones and ipods that would be distracting. Still a valid reason not to allow backpacks into the classrooms but hasn't really addressed any safety concerns over weapons being brought into the school building. Safety plans alleviate litigation over negligence and provide a false sense of security for a percentage of the population. 9-11 has just brought to the forefront our vulnerability and powerlessness in some situations that have always been there but denied. There will always be disenfranchised people who endanger others; whether they be an individual or a nation. We would better spend our money teaching respect towards those who are different than we are so that those who commit these acts out of frustration with their situation in life not end up in those situations..but we are human with our various prejudices so that is likely not going to happen any time soon.

Leo,

I think you will do a great job!!!!

You are the first person that has said this project can begin anyway. I have not heard that from ANY school official

Sassypants,

I realize that your children mean a lot to you, mine do to me. But you do realize, that while they live in your home, they are God's children that He lets you love for a time. Whatever is in His plan for them, you and I cannot change, we can only love them for as long as God allows. God's plan will be followed and one day all human relationships end according to it. I'll pray that when it comes, you and I will be the ones leaving and not our children. God's will be done.

Your comment "You are the first person that has said this project can begin anyway. I have not heard that from ANY school official" says a lot. A lady stood up at the school board meeting last night and basically asked for people to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.That's what I try to do. Many times, I include references and links.

It was when I found out that what had been said during meetings about the uses of the CPF did not concur with what the law said that I started looking things up.

At the 1028 hearing, the corporation's attorney told the board that if a remonstrance prevailed, nothing could be done for a year. That is not how the law reads. the law reads that if the remonstrance prevails, the plan that is defeated cannot be reconsidered for a year, but any plan that is "substantially different" could be considered immediately. I don't see where I said the project can proceed, excepting that the petition gather the most signatures.

The day I turned the signed petitions requesting the petition and remonstrance process be applied, I e-mailed Dr. Schroeder, the board members, most of the principals, and a lot of the other staff of the corporation asking that they have another plan, "substantially different", ready to go should the remonstrance prevail.

We do need to do some work on our buildings, just, in my humble opinion, more cost-effectively, based on research that says what we do will have the maximum positive impact on education, solving as many problems as we can, and WE NEED TO DO IT QUICKLY before costs go up too much and because some of it has been delayed far too long already.

I am not against building. I know that we need to. I'm not adverse to all of what is in this project, some of it is sorely needed. I am against spending money in ways that my knowledge of the facts indicate is too little purpose or down-right foolish.

Dear Supporter,

Would you like to prove your comment that a Marine Corps Base wastes money? Please submit your proof to HQMC, they want to know and when they know, I'll read about it as someone with significant rank will go to the brig or prison.

If you cannot see how the building proposal is related to the graduation rate, I'll spell it out for you. Class size affects education, especially in K-3rd grade when the students are learning HOW to learn. Class size is affected by the limitation of the number of classrooms available. The projection in the feasibility study for elementary student body growth was for an additional 160 students, but it did not state if kindergarten was included. The building proposal adds a total of zero classrooms to the number that we have on hand. That's right, read the Revised Recommendations for Clay Community Schools, all of the planned classrooms in it are to REPLACE existing ones in the modular classrooms. So tell me, MISTER, where are we going to teach the 160 additional students, in classrooms with 30 - 35 students per class so that even fewer children will be able to learn or do we form them up in the parking lot in classes without teachers as we can't afford to hire teachers due to how our operating budget is being spent.

The teachers already do not have enough one-on-one time with the students to teach the ones that fall behind, that IS indicated BY our graduation rate. It is not indicated before then, because WE NO LONGER FAIL STUDENTS who do not make the grades unless they are two or three grade levels behind their peers. Even then, we often just move them to "special education" within their grade level, thus "special ed" fifth grade is NOT doing fifth grade level work! It is "bad" for their self-esteem to realize that they failed and need to try again!! That is precisely how my grandson ended up in freshman, sophomore, and junior English during his Junior year and precisely why he dropped out. His Senior years would have been a riot. He should have been failed in the grade where he did not make the grades to pass, but the schools LOSE money if they FAIL a student. To fail a student also means that our schools would have to admit failure, too, and we can't have that. Of course, if we could identify at what point students fail and if a certain teacher happens to be involved in a higher number of failed students than the teacher's peers, we might be able to identify a poor teacher and remedy the situation by re-training or, perish the thought, replacement of that teacher with someone who can ACTUALLY teach!!

What you, and a lot of other people, fail to realize is that everything IS connected. If we spend one dollar replacing a plumbing fixture that did not need replacing, we cannot spend that dollar on a door lock that does. If we have nothing that is a bona fide need and we spend the dollar for the un-needed plumbing fixture, we have stolen the dollar from the taxpayer and wasted it.

You may want to take a course in Sociology or Psychology 101. You will discover that, at the ages that equate with grades K-4, the human child absorbs knowledge at a very high rate. It is at that point where the schools have the highest impact and you can see it every fall at any bus stop. Most of those children WANT to go to school and LEARN! We may not be able to affect their home life, but we can TEACH them.

Now, you have got my Irish up. I do not know who you are or who you think you are, but I seriously doubt that you were ever the S-2 (Logistics OFFICER) of a battalion (1st Tracked Vehicle Bn., 3rd MarDiv, 1983), especially as an E-5 Sergeant. I was, for six months, and got an outstanding fitness report along with a letter of commendation from the CG for my performance. Did YOU happen to take the STAFF College Extension Course and pass with a 3.85 grade point average? You have no concept of what the Marine Corps taught me, but I'll stack my SRB against yours anytime, anyplace. I know what I have done and what I can do. In the area of our schools, I can also recognize a SNAFU when I see it happening. I've seen many of them, in the Marine Corps and elsewhere! Oh, yeah, you do not have to capitalize the words "marine" and "corps" if you are not referring to the United States Marine Corps or another nation's Marine Corps, but I would appreciate that you would capitalize any and all instances when you are referring to my beloved Corps. Didn't you learn anything in Boot Camp? Were you on a first name basis with your Platoon Commander?

Sorry, Folks, I made an error and should have proofed my last post closer. "supporter" kind of "got my goat"!

I served as the S-3 (logistics officer)of the 1st Tracked Vehicle Bn., 3rd MarDiv from March thru August of 1983 as a Sergeant, due to personnel shortages. I held a tertiary MOS in the logistics field at the time. My primary was recon, my secondary was AAV repairer.

I got assigned as the S-3 by being lucky...lol......I was the senior Marine present with any logistics MOS or experience. If not me, then some poor Lt. who didn't have a clue as to how things should and must be done. Even with some knowledge, it was a LEARNING experience.

OOH-RAH the MARINES have landed and the situation is well in hand.....right after we beat each other to a bloody pulp!

Supporter,

First, my glaring Marine Corps mistake. Your post made me re-check when you said that you were in the 4-shop and logistics. There would be little use of a 04 in the 3 shop. (1 shop, admin, 2 shop, intel, 3 shop, operations and training, 4 shop, logistics.)I had the typing fingers going while the brain clutch was slipping. It was a long day and I was not thinking, just re-acting to your comment while angry about it.

When I was assigned, several grades above my pay-grade, to Bn Headquarters, I was the 4. I had to pull the commendation to confirm, but should have thought about it longer. I didn't because you just ticked me off and it was long ago and far away. While I didn't ship a division to Iraq, I did ship the battalion to Korea, as well as running the "complaint" department. As you know, being a 04, the 4-shop is responsible for all of the Marine Corps failings. You know I say that in jest, but every Marine will tell you that he had to improvise to succeed or failed because he didn't have what he need where he needed it when he needed it. Supply, transportation, communications (in conjunction with the 3, they operate it, we make sure it operates), maintenance, billeting, medical, dental, embarkation, and food service all come under the 4. That was near the top as my busiest time in the Corps, and, to say what I would like to say in this forum, 99% poppycock!

You may have worked with some of the same gear as I did....I worked with the Maritime Pre-Positioned Shipping in the Atlantic in 86-87 as a civ. Had a guy....retired MGySgt...tell me that out of over 900 pieces of equipment, he had only one on deadline. I called him a liar to his face and I thought "Top" was going to explode right there………lol. It just popped out, rather un-tactfully. After a re-check, it was found that over fifty pieces were dead-lined. We had several SP arty pieces on board, but the breech mechanisms had been removed for prolonged storage and they were not on board. Albany had removed them prior to loading and they were "left on the dock". Nothing would thrill an arty commander more than to land on hostile shores and find out that his SP 8 inch guns were now SP .50 cal. mounts. Of course, that would be the 4's fault.

Now, moving on to other errors, I stated that we weren't adding classrooms. That is what the revised plan states. I got to thinking about it and it didn't add up. It states that 3 classrooms are to be added to Eastside, yet the modular only contains 2. I had to pull the Aug. 2007 plan and look at the aerial photographs, but they confirm that 5 classrooms would not fit in the Staunton "pole-barn". So we ARE adding classrooms, but I do not see that we are adding enough classrooms.

From what I have seen, no one has even crunched the numbers to see how many classrooms at any level we NEED now to reduce class sizes, much less planning for an increase in the number of students in our elementary system. Since the first day of school and until the 12th of September, class sizes are in a state of flux, but I am almost certain that our classes are too large. Our teachers just don't have the time to stop and help those who start to fall behind until they are so lost that they are moved into special education. What starts as a small problem is allowed to grow into a larger one by a systematic failure to allocate the proper resources, i.e. classrooms and teachers.

There are many studies on the subject of class size and school size. Most of the ones that I have looked at on class size indicate that smaller is better. The ones on school size are split about fifty-fifty, saying that smaller is better and that size has little impact, especially at the elementary level where students move from room to room as a class instead of individuals. The Indiana State School Boards Association, along with many other organizations, concurs on class size and the Indiana Department of Education database data for the three counties of Owen, Greene, and Sullivan, which have elementary schools with over 600 students that closely match our demographics and our performance indicators, show that combining Eastside and Meridian into one building can succeed in producing the same results or better with students with the same demographics or worse with lowered operating costs and remove the specter of some future generation having to replace all of our elementary buildings over a short span of time.

That is why I am against the current plan, It is short sighted, it doesn't solve all of the problems that that amount of money can, and the buildings, after renovation, will not improve education as much as what other options would. We can plan this better and accomplish more. I know that you have heard that "A failure to plan is a plan to fail". When I heard of the plan last Aug., I asked three questions. They went unanswered, but I was given "the plan". That plan was so full of un-justifiable "wants" as to be un-believable. The revised plan is absurd. Simply put, it fails to do what is in the best interest of all concerned, period. A small percentage want to hold on to schools that no longer fit our needs. Reminds me of a Marine who cried when he had to give up his M151 Jeep for a Hummer. He went down to DPDO and bought a lot of five jeeps and drove "his" jeep on "his" time. Another small percentage wants to replace items that are still serviceable simply because they are not "new". That is "poppycock". Use it as long as you can.

Moving on, the graduation rate is used as an indicator of the success/fail rate of our schools; however, according to a presentation given at a school board meeting within the last quarter be Mr. Rayle and Mr. Bell, it is a "false" indicator. One scenario that affects it is that a student enrolls, and then simply stops showing up without transferring. That counts as our "failure". Another would be the student who fails to graduate, with his peers, due to the need of a few credits but earns them within weeks or even days. That student is not added as a "success" into our graduation rate. But even with that poor indicator, a 10% variation in the graduation rates between the two schools calls the method of operation into question, just as a 10% variation in the dead-line rate between two units having the same equipment under the same command. One of them is simply performing better than the other. Find out how and tell the lower how to improve their posture.

On the Clay City students attending Special Education classes at Northview, I do not know the situation. I will try to find out, but that is like a PFC asking the Commandant a question. First, everybody in the chain is going to jump the PFC for asking, the Commandant is unlikely to answer, but the question may be answered by the chain of command at a later date.

It is an interesting question which would explain the variance, at least in part, if those students are counted into Northview and if they are counted as our "failures" at all. I seem to recall the mention of a waiver that applies to the situation, whereby they wouldn't appear to be included in the graduation rate.

What I'm saying, on the building project, is that we need to take another look at it, quickly, and before we commit to it. It simply was not researched enough to show the best options available and some of the best options were dismissed for personal, not practical, reasons. It would be a failure to look at our schools in ten years and say "we should have done it different, because now we are going to have to anyway".

Supporter: I won't even begin to try to understand all the Marine jargon you and Leo are getting at....

You do bring up points though that are what have led me to beleive that we as a community are more worried about what our schools look like and have looked like in the past than what is going on inside them at times. This I believe handicaps the school board, administrators, and all the other school employees as well to a certain extent into only be able to make accomplishments in those areas while we have a lot to do inside those buildings that is even more important. I would like to address the comment about students being like the proverbial horse that can be lead to water but not made to drink....A wise veterinarian replied to me when I made the same statement that "No you can not make him drink but you can put salt on his tongue so he will be thirsty for it." We need to stimulate these students in every way possible to make them realize how valuable an education is so that they will make an informed choice and take personal ownership of their studies. Using others as examples we can show them what they can accomplish when they make the right choices, and not always put them down for what they've done out of ignorance. How many in the situations you've described have had a mentor tell them about their choices and what is possible when they make the right ones?

I contend that many do not know any other way and it's not that they just don't want to learn. We need to stimulate their thirst in whatever way we can so that they can see their other choices and that by their not applying themselves totally in school that they are reducing their choices. How?? Talk to them. Talk to their parents. Make sure that students at the lower socioeconomic levels have the same chances that the ones who are self or parent motivated do [like making 7 class day the norm for all of the students]. Make sure each guidance counselor/teacher/administrator states clearly to each student that they are giving up viable choices each time they choose a less challenging class and that some post secondary education for EVERY person is now what is needed to compete. It is no longer acceptable to think that some students just aren't college material. That is in essence writing them off as they can no longer make a living to support a family above poverty level without some post secondary training. There are some things we can do on indvidiual basis and some things we can do school wide. It won't help everyone but the chance that it will break the chain of dependance for one student might make the difference for future generations of that entire family. We can't afford not to try just because it appears that some young people don't want to try or that their parents don't have the tools available to do so. Whether you help with a career day, let a student job shadow, help them with homework, have a study group around your kitchen table, or suggest improvements for the schools...we have to keep trying and not give up on these kids....

I will just touch on the pregnancy rate and will probably get flamed here big time for my liberal stance but part of the issue I have had with the way health has been taught is that the course material on reproductive education is incomplete as it omits viable options for those who do not choose abstinance. We are looking at the world with rose colored glasses if we think this is a perfect world where all are choosing abstinance as the safe sex practice of choice. As with making educational choices, not all of the students have the tools to excel academically. Neither have we given them all of the information with which to practice safe sex if they have not received guidance about the pitfalls of being sexual active at their home or place of worship. Our school, no our community, has failed a segment of our population in the judgemental way it regulates what is and is not taught. We are in major denial and in my opinion taking a judgemental role that crosses the fine line between church and state as well.

Excellent Leo, I could not agree with your last commentary more. Thank you for your time and effort in this process and your commitment to open people's eyes. You opened my eyes a few months ago, and I for one appreciate it.

I am really concerned with your committee proposal. In many cases a committee study will drag on and on. Costs in the meantime will continue to go up. In the end we might end up with a significant chunk of our dollars eaten up by inflation. No matter what is said about good will and working together there will be major differences of opinion.

What are the chances that after this process is done and a new plan is put together that there will still be opposition? There may be another person out there who feels just as strongly that your committee plan is wrong. What then? Will we once again be going thru a remonstrance process?

I can see this being studied to death and never ever coming to reality.

After 2008, projects exceeding 10 million dollars will automatically go on a referendum, no longer being subject to the petition/remonstrance process.

Projects less than 10 million could still face that scenerio.

BackHomeAgain,

What I was trying to get across was that we may not be able to bond on the current plan by December 31st, 2008 anyway. The school corporation did not allow enough time for a remonstrance and petition in their timetable, even in the face of the opposition that was apparent before the deciding vote was taken. It was at that time that the school board should have withdrawn the plan and came up with another one. After the petition requiring the petition and remonstrance process was certified to them, they had a chance to withdraw the plan and start planning something different. They chose to proceed with the petition and remonstrance process. What most people do not understand is that even if the petition fails to stop the project, another petition has been submitted to the tax control board to modify the project on the grounds that renovating Eastside and Meridian is not cost-effective. No matter what, the school corporation is going to be hard pressed to cut and sell bonds by the end of the year.

Looking at in that light, wouldn't it be the responsible and logical thing for the school corporation to voluntarily withdraw this plan, address the concerns, and come up with a more acceptable plan instead of trying to ram it through with the high probability of having to pay capitalized interest and cutting back the project anyway?

If the remonstrance prevails, we can start revising the plan right now. If the Dept. of Government Finance cuts the plan, it is out of our hands.

Big Pappy:

On this we agree 100%. Though not one of the "experts", I was a member of one of those committees and could not believe the nostalgia factor that ended up overriding the numbers and common sense.

Maybe those signers of remonstrance need to come up with an alternative plan at the ready to present to board that might include transportation garage and some of the desperately needed areas that need immediate attention and a more long range plan to YES redistrict according to population numbers. People need to get over their kids not being taught in the same building in which they were taught 20 years ago and worry more about how we will continue to afford to educate them. Plenty of kids in the state come out fine from 500+ schools. It's the class size, not the school size. It's the attitude and atmosphere of the school, not how many it contains.

Leo said "When I hear people whose children are graduating out of Jackson Township Elementary telling me that they are sending them to Clay City, I have to wonder why".

IMO, it could be because it is a smaller school.

Unoit:

Yes wordiness is a downfall of mine I readily admit. I am working on that...

I still believe the nostalgia factor is a big one however as when I was on redistricting committee, there were some who just didn't like the idea of living where they might be switched to a different elementary school. Even before the talk of possibly closing one. There were also some that did NOT want their kids going to Clay City HS. I for one, prefer Northview as due to its size it was able to offer some courses that Clay City did not at times. One year it was German II or III that was cut due to lack of interest I believe, leaving some students down there with inability to complete honor's diploma. Not being from this county, the north/south thing doesn't enter into the equation.

If we do build any new schools however, they need to be in the middle of the county so that both ends have equal access and we don't have to repeatedly duplicate things at other end of county. Even if this doesn't matter to some, at least it will take away all idea of a project being planned to benefit one end of county over another. I too don't feel that this is an issue in this case, but some may. Same with bus garage in my opinion. Most buses are housed at drivers' homes so maybe all that's needed at each end of county is refueling station?? I notice at Lost Creek Elementary in Vigo there is a fuel pump. Is that because it is east most school?? Something to look into? Maybe it has been already? Development is about maxed out in Brazil City anyhow. Future needs are likely to be out in county where there is still room to build and develop.

When looking at a college, it is class size and instructor/student ratio. Not how large the building is or how many students in each department. As a matter of fact, a school can be too small so as to limit choices and group students with too big of a spread as to the speed in which material is covered. We could do a lot more with grouping kids according to their ability to learn at different speeds. This way we wouldn't be leaving part of the class behind and another part bored to tears because classwork moving too slowly for them. So what if it takes longer to get through grades 1 or 2. Better to have those foundations of reading etc down solidly before they're pushed on to higher level and not able to take on other work that builds on the ability to read. Same with kids who can go at faster pace. Many times those are the ones who find their own diversion in class due to boredom and end up either being the cut ups in class or lose interest in learning. We have smart kids failing due to not being challenged and others who are struggling and can never catch up. I have experienced this working in Virginia public schools where classes are split during certain subjects to allow for this. Works wonderfully all around. This has worked as a pilot project at Jackson already for math. One year two classes of same grade split to allow each group to keep pace more easily with peers. Another year a third group was created to further challenge them and spark their interest with a volunteer instructor who had special competitive group problems for them to solve on top of their regular class assignments that they completed quickly. Think of what could be done if there were 4 classes in each grade!! More chances for individualizing the students' needs.

I'd better quit here or I'll go beyond my word quota [grin]. Have a good day.

I am writing this to you in concern with the statement that Leo made, "Jenny brought up one point that I haven't even had a chance to look into, the bus garage. Do we even need anything more than a place to wash and refuel? What actual maintenance do we perform there and can we contract that out cheaper? Like I said, I haven't looked into the options concerning bus maintenance."

This statement that you made was untrue; you say that you check into facts and figures. Ok let's go into facts and figures then. How much does it cost to do maintenance on a bus? The operating cost per bus for the bus garage to do a full service on a bus is $110. If you go to International to have a full service performed on a bus it will cost the taxpayer $185. Those figures are with parts and labor both added into the cost. If you figure we save $75 per bus on a service take that times the 75 busses that we do have and you get $5625 that is saved on services alone and that is just on one service per bus. Each bus receives 5 services per school year that is a savings of $28125. NOW let's go into repairs on the school busses, we do roughly 10 brake jobs per year on various busses. Brake shoes cost $70 to do one axle $140 to do two axles and we can have a brake job done in 30 minutes. That is $22.50 for labor on one axle and $45 for two axles. Now let's add this up and break it down, it costs the corporation $92.50 for one axle and $185 for two axles. Now lets take it to International to have the work done it will cost the taxpayer $250 for parts and labor to do one axle and $350 for two axles. That is a savings of $157.50 for one axle and a savings of $165 for two axles. Ok now for a year it is a savings of on average $1600.

Let's go a little bit more in depth on bus repairs now. There are seat repairs that have to be done every year to the school busses because kids rip or tear the seats. If the hole is small enough we just tape it and glue it, but if the hole is too big to be repaired it has to have a seat back or bottom put on the seat. Each cover is $30 and we replace about 30 covers a year on 75 busses. It takes us about 15 minutes to replace a seat back or bottom and it takes on mechanic. So that is $7.50 for labor for one seat cover, then the cost of the cover so it is about $37.50 for one cover at 30 covers per year that is a total of $1125 for seat repairs. What will it cost the taxpayer if we take it out? International charges a minimum of one hour labor which is $85 then you have the cost of the cover which is $30 so to repair one seat cover it will cost the taxpayer $115 which is a total of $3450 a year. Then there are motor repairs, because contrary to whatever you hear or what you think we do not just do services. Last school year alone we had to overhaul one engine replace one transmission repaired 4 transmissions, adjusted the valves on 5 busses replaced king pins on one bus, and replaced 7 windshields in busses.

Now we need to figure up how much those repairs cost. To overhaul the motor we done the cost to the corporation was $786.68. If that job would have been sublet out it would have cost the taxpayers $85 an hour labor and International would have charged the corporation 18 hours for that repair. That is $1530 just for labor; the parts would have cost the corporation another $700, so that would be a total of $2230. That one repair was a savings of $1443.32. The transmission job that we performed cost the corporation $2324.34. The transmission cost $2000 then you had the cost of fluid and filter as well, with a parts total of $2096.79. The only place in the area to do transmission repairs is Reliable Transmission because they are an authorized dealer and service for Allison transmission. It would have cost the taxpayers $2096.79 for parts and they charge 7 hours to remove and replace a transmission and their labor rate is $85. Labor would have been $595 for the job putting the total at $2691.79 then you would have had the cost of a tow bill to tow the bus to Greenwood, IN which is about $350. So the total would have been $3041.79. That means we saved a total of $717.45. Then we had the cost of the 4 transmission repairs, the total for all four repairs made here at the garage was $2679.00. If that labor would have been sublet out, once again you would have at that time had 4 tow bills at $350 each and the cost of the repairs at $3892.00. So how much of a savings was that? $2613.

As you can see we have saved the corporation quite a bit already, but I am not done yet. Between the windshields, king pins and valves we adjusted we saved the corporation $3582.00. Ok now let me ask you a question. What is the corporation going to do when you have a bus break down? What are you going to do with the kids on that bus while you wait for them to get a bus to the site? Because without a garage it will take awhile to get a spare bus there whereas we can be there usually depending on where the bus breaks down at we can be there in 10 minutes. Then what are you going to do with the bus that is broke down? The closest wrecker to this area is in Indianapolis, and it will cost you another $200 to $350 to have the bus towed depending on where you go with it. With the bus garage we go out and tow the bus back in ourselves if need be and make the repairs that is needed. Now while we are on break down issues, when winter comes what's the corporation going to do when they have 4 busses gel up in one morning because with the new fuel ratings the fuel now gels up extremely easily. At that point the driver and kids on the bus will have to sit with the bus in the cold because when the bus gels up it will not run and there will be no heat for the children and it takes someone an hour or two to get to the bus when it is down. Then what would you do when a school bus is out on a trip say in Dayton, OH and it breaks down. Then you have a wrecker bill to tow the bus all the way back to Brazil area for repair because the corporation only has accounts with local business. Whereas now we can take them a bus and make the necessary repairs needed to get it back to the garage until the correct repair can be made on the bus.

Now let's go a little bit into depth into what else we do here. We also repair and maintain ALL the service vehicles for Clay Community Schools. Which is a total of 10 service trucks and vans, and then we have to maintain and repair ALL lawn mowers, weed eaters, tractors, snow removal equipment and generators for the corporation. For all them to be sublet out how much money would it cost the corporation to send all that equipment out to be repaired at Clarks lawn and garden or Midland Tractors out of Greencastle? As you can see there is a lot more that goes on at the bus garage then everyone thinks. We send NOTHING out for repair unless it is still under factory warranty and right now that is about 20 busses that we have. Everything else is done here at the garage. Once you sit down and add up all the repairs we have made versus how much someplace would charge the corporation you can see that we save the corporation a substantial amount of money.

The one thing that gets me going about your statement Leo is that you made the statement before you looked into anything. When I was in the Marine Corps one thing I was taught was to do your research then speak your opinion on the subject. It makes me extremely furious we people throw out ideas and allegations without proper research and documentation. That would be like going to your CO and saying Sir, I think you are spending too much money on repairs and we need to sublet it out, just because that is what you thought and you have no legitimate statistics to base your opinion on.