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Evolution and CreationPosted Wednesday, November 26, 2008, at 6:20 AM
I, as a Christian, believe that God created Man. I, as a reasonably educated man, also believe that man evolved. I do not believe that the two ideas exclude each other nor do I believe that the ideas held by other cultures exclude these. Generally, when someone wishes to debate the Bible against science, I simply ask them the length of God's day. God has always been and forever will be, so how did God measure time before He created "Day" and "Night" or did God measure time at all before then? Did time even exist before then? Of the infinite expanse of our universe, why is God limited to our point of reference for a measurement of time, the rotation of this one small planet, except in an attempt to explain something unfathomable to us?
God, as I know God, is the omnipotent and eternal Master of Creation. However, man is a limited creature. We do not know the extent of God's power nor could we understand it if we did know. The Pentateuch, the first five books of the Bible and the Torah, appears to have originated around 1280 BCE or before. At that time, mankind, especially the group within which this idea of creation originated, had little concept of time. Questions: How would a timeless being have explained an event that may have occurred over several million years to a time-linear creature who has little concept of time beyond a life-span or even generations of life spans? Would the time-linear creature, man, have been able to grasp the concept? There are scientific theories that time itself is slowing down, therefore, what we measure as years now may well have occurred in much less time. One theory of the universe's origin, the "Big Bang" theory, is very similar to the words contained in the Pentateuch……..lol……..God spoke and something happened except the theory has something basically coming from nothing without cause. What came before the universe, plasma, energy, God, call it what you will, but something had to have existed. Something cannot come from nothing, science says that..........LOL. No matter how many zeros you add together, the result is always zero. Could God be a being of energy or pre-universe plasma? As such, why would He even care about the temporal species of Homo sapiens? I cannot believe that God does except as a part of the whole of Creation. I believe that there is a purpose and that God cares for (loves) Creation. I believe that God has a plan that is not deviated from for or in spite of us. With that in mind, does prayer matter? I believe the answer is yes, yet God knows what will be asked and already has in His plan what will happen! I believe that God cares enough about man to have sent part of God's self, in the form of Jesus to try to help us. I think that Jesus was sent to try to protect us from ourselves and the damage that we are capable of doing to ourselves and each other. Comments Showing most recent comments first [Show in chronological order instead] |
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Dear FlyinLion:
Thanks for your questions. There are no creation accounts in Genesis. Chapters one and two are from different time periods, separated by millions of years.
God showed Moses two sets of extinct animals. Those which were seen on the fifth day, and those which were seen on the sixth day. To gain better understanding, I urge you and your assembly to host my seminar, which explains all of this, using correct literal interpretation of the text (King James' version).
You have not heard the truth of Genesis yet, because all of those before me (for the last 1800 years) did not understand what God was showing Moses. Currently, all pastors/priests/rabbis are avoiding me and my seminar because of fear and selfish reasons.
Rather than to allow their congregations and communities to hear the truth, they would rather play into the adversary's hands and let the people die in ignorance of the truth of Genesis. Even so called "Christian Universities" and Bible Colleges refuse my seminar, because they don't want their ignorance exposed.
Dear brother, I am glad to know that you are a Christian, but I have something interesting for you. Did you know that evolution cannot be compatible with God? I recommend looking into what Richard Dawkins says about the two. If man evolved from creatures, where are the in between evolutions? Many scientists don't think that evolution is the best answer either, but don't have any new ideas. Evolution in the large sense is actually man's rebellion from Creation. The big bang is not even a majority opinion in the secular world of how it started, they don't know and will tell you they don't and even think "aliens" did it. I recommend Ben Stein's Expelled movie. Take care, and may the Lord bless ya. goodnight
Mr. Cummings,
You have stated that "I am the only person I know or ever heard of presently on this Earth that is qualified to teach Biblical Creation." Sorry to be a Doubting Thomas, but just what qualifies you?
Perhaps you can explain why Genesis contains TWO stories for the Creation in Genesis. Genesis 1:1 thru 2:3 comprises one account of Creation, in which animals were created before Man in Genesis 1:24-25 while man is created in verse 26. The second account of Creation begins at Genesis 2:4 and ends with the creation of Woman at Genesis 2:22, with Man being created at Genesis 2:7 but animals coming into the picture, after the planting of the Garden of Eden, at Genesis 2:19. Surely God knew when he created Man, but did men understand what God explained to them?
You have said that Moses observed several different epochs during Creation, not in chronological order. "What Genesis does give us is what we will call the Observations of Moses (OM). God showed Moses, on Mt. Sinai in 1598 BC, six days from the ancient past which Moses would later write down (or have written) in the book of Genesis. Theology mistakenly calls them the "Six Days of Creation", but that too is false, because bible scholars, other creationists, and theologians do not understand the text, and have misled mankind into thinking that early Genesis is just "folklore" from "Evolution vs. the Observations of Moses", http://www.bestsyndication.com/?q=081306..., submitted by Herman Cummings on August 13, 2006 - 2:26pm. Are you implying that God avoided showing Moses any extinct creatures during the tour? The list of remarkably different creatures contained in the fossil record makes it unlikely that a man would not remember them, noting that they no longer exist, and not include them in either oral or written accounts to be passed down the generations to us.
Would God omit the truth? I think not: but, like you, I don't think we understand what God told us.
Where is the "death by escalation" that you state is contained in the "Observations of Moses"? As a matter of fact, what do you identify as the Observations of Moses? Like Jenny, my church does not identify any part of Genesis as "the observations of Moses" and although I read several articles that you wrote, you don't seem to identify any specific part of Genesis or the Old Testament as such, so what are you referring to?
hzcummi:
First,I have been a practicing Christian now for 50 plus years and have never heard of "Observations of Moses" Maybe it's called something else in my church as I can't believe I missed it completely in all those years.
Second, Your pat response is only toward the Atheist but does not address those who believe in God, the fact that he created all, including the process of evolution. You only give credit to your interpretation and not of others who are both Christian believers, but who interpret the Bible [which has been translated many times to many languages by many different people] a little differently. One of the reasons that there are so many variations of Christianity that are valid as they follow His two commandments.
Are you saying that a Christian who loves God and treats his fellow man as himself as God commands is going to hell because he believes that another man many years ago didn't have the knowledge God did to create the earth so put it in words he could understand?
To me this view sounds too much like a Christian Taliban initiated to dominate and divide. You want all to interpret the Bible your way only. God gave us choices. You cannot take them away no matter what you say.
Public schools are set up to protect us from having to follow the faith traditions of those who wield power. Even the Bible comes in many forms. King James, Gideon, New American, etc etc.
Then there are those who practice faiths other than Christianity. Islam, Judaism, Hinduism. God give them their choice. Even the open declaration of Jesus as their saviour varies within Christianity. Some feel that they need to be reborn to be able to follow God's word and others feel that they through baptism, being born once was quite enough. If you open the door to these Biblical beliefs being taught in public school, you put into place one "brand" of religion being dominant or official when each of us has the equal right under our government to not have to practice the teachings of one "brand" or another.
The details of creation are unimportant compared to God's main message. Giving it so much importance focuses on differences instead of how we are all God's people and should treat each other accordingly.
When you put so much importance on this you create an us and them environment that is not Christian nor American. WE are all God's children and we are all Americans. There is so much more than this one little detail. Why are so many so hung up on how it happened? God did it. It's ancient history. Period.
Have a good day.
The Deathtrap of Evolution
As parents, we are to "train up a child in the way he should go:". In doing so, the child is directed to "remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth,". So what are our educators presently doing? They are teaching our children that there is a tooth fairy that gives you a dollar for your lost tooth if you put it under your pillow at night. How about the teaching that there is a Santa Claus that flies through the air with reindeer, who comes down the chimney on Christmas Eve to deliver gifts that you wished for. I guess that those that live in apartment buildings have to have some other delivery fable taught.
Yes, I am pointing out the insanity of the practice of only teaching our students the theory of evolution. Creationism can hardly be taught, but the "Observations of Moses" can easily be taught our students, as a counter balance to the blind teaching of evolution. There is no evidence for evolution, except in the closed mind of blind academics, administrators, and scientists.
What circumstantial evidence is used to come to the conclusion of evolution? The very same evidence that (the Observations of Moses) states that there was "death by escalation", meaning that death to life forms first came to the simplest of creatures in the water (out of sight of land dwellers), before escalating to higher life forms that already lived on land. With this position, you get the exact same results in the geologic record, but without the phantom "transitional forms".
The atheist and evolutionist are motivated by the evil spirit of rebellion against God, whose goal is to destroy as much of mankind as possible. Take notice of their strategy, which is to only have the secular theories of science required and taught in public schools. But when it comes to teaching (the correct data) from the book of Genesis, they say "teach it in religion class, because it's not science". That is a bold face lie!! The very teaching of evolution is indoctrination into the religion of Atheism!! It is Satan's mission to deny the reality of God and His Word, or at least "redefine" the scriptures, so that he can destroy all of mankind that he can.
How can the Observations of Moses not be science? If Moses was given an overview (six visions) of the 4.6 billion year history of our Earth and universe, and saw the several different life forms as they lived in the ancient past, how is that not science? Is science the denial of reality, and the redefinition of history? Does it seek to destroy the minds of our students? Take notice that evolutionists don't want any other theory taught in science class. The truth is not afraid of exposure, but a falsehood is fearful of the light.
The seven-day creationists, such as those who support Creation Science and Biblical Reality, are motivated by the desire to rescue mankind, by trying to convey the truth of history, and the reality of our existence. Theistic evolution, Day/Age, and progressive creationists deny the truth of God's Word, and teach false doctrine. Creation Science teaches foolish doctrines, by denying scientific reality, and along with Ruin & Restoration, they end up redefining God's Word. But at least they try to acknowledge the Eternal Spirit, His creation of our existence, and the truth of history.
However, this article is named "The Deathtrap of Evolution", and for good reason. Since there indeed is a Creator, there is indeed a coming judgment of mankind, both modern and prehistoric. At the White Throne Judgment, every remaining human being, whether they be Homo Sapiens, Cro-Magnon, Neanderthal, or original mankind, will stand trial and must give an account of their deeds while they lived on this Earth.
What sort of "an account" will an atheist or evolutionist be able to give? Will the excuse "I didn't see any evidence" be accepted, and the person will be allowed to live forever in peace? Or will the option to remain in ignorance, and denial of the truth of Genesis (as written in the book "Moses Didn't Write About Creation!"), be charged against the person, and they be thrown into the waiting Lake of Fire to be tormented forever?
Just imagine the laughter that many atheists and evolutionists now exhibit when the thought of a Creator is discussed. Now imagine the opposite when they find themselves standing in line, with tens of thousands of other humans, waiting to be judged by someone that they may have laughed at. Be assured that those that have done wrong against certain others, will be judged by that very same person, who will have the given authority to grant everlasting life or torment. This scenario would be discussed in another book, not yet written.
So what is the final conclusion? It is that the fossil and geologic record of the ancient past gives solid proof of the truth of Genesis, namely the Observations of Moses, without the need of non-existent "transitional forms" which the theory of evolution relies on. God first created, and then restored life on Earth after each extinction event.
Herman Cummings
Ephraim7@aol.com
PO Box 1745
Fortson GA, 31808
I am in a hurry, but I have only one comment that encompasses both you Leo, and Jenny. OH HOW I ADORE YOU BOTH!! Happy Thanksgiving to all!
Much Love,
Karen.
Violetta Bloom -- "today's creationism/ID lobby is a political power base" stood out of your comment as a vexing truth…..LOL. It appears that the issue is not what God did or how He did it, it's about how we teach students about how we came to be here…….LOL! That depends on what the class is about. In a science class, let us look at the process by which we came to be. In philosophy, theology, and in our religion, let us examine the reason that we came to be. The process by which we came to exist has little to do with the reason we are here nor does the fact that we are here have much to do with how we got here………LOL. You can give all of the details of how you got to the Circle in Indianapolis, but that has no bearing on the fact that a car hit you at the Circle and you are laying on the street there, for example.
Karen, I too, did not evolve, I was born to human parents. God formed Man from the earth and breathed life into him. In that instant, Man became Man. How long is God's day? How long is God's instant? Again, how does an omnipotent, ever-present God explain to such a limited creature as Man the process by which Man came to be? Can I teach my dog about the theory of evolution? I can only teach him a limited vocabulary in English that will get him to respond in ways that I wish. Compared to God and myself, my relationship and understanding with my dog is infinitely closer. Using me and my dog as a base for comparison, my relationship to God isn't as close as my relationship to the least of sub-atomic particles. God is everything and I am nothing, if not less even than that. How can God explain anything to me in a way that I could possibly comprehend?
Science has traced Mitochondrial DNA that we all have to a single, female relative. (EVE, perhaps??) While that ancestor was "fruitful" and multiplied, it didn't happen without time passing. Time, also, is a creation of God, but God is not bound by it. Who is Man to bind God in any way? God may choose to bind Himself to Mankind, as in the case of Jesus, but MAN CANNOT BIND GOD!
Every now and again, God decides to bake a cake, and has decided to bake a cake at that point within time as I know it; I know this is fact as I am sometimes the instrument used to do it. He has created all of the ingredients required, all of the processes needed to take the raw ingredients to a point where they can be used to make a cake, and then given me the desire and knowledge to change those ingredients into a cake. He has already determined how the cake will turn out. With that in mind, isn't a cake as much a miracle as a man? Why should I not believe the scientific evidence concerning evolution while I observe this cake becoming a cake from the batter from the prepared ingredients from the raw ingredients from the plants and animals the raw ingredients came from and the evolutionary evidence that brought those plants and animals to a point in their development to be able to provide me with ingredients to bake a cake?
Karen:
I am sitting here laughing. Not because I agree or disagree, but because of your analogy of the fleas. Fleas are not specie specific and will feed on humans as they do on dogs. It's just that dogs are usually closer to the ground where they pick up fleas and not as naked or clean so they find it harder to shed them. Just walk into a house that has been infested but empty for a while and the fleas will hop right onto your ankles and start feeding. Any realtor will tell you that. They lay eggs however in grass, carpet or whatever is available and gives them cover and can save up their appetite for weeks until a movable feast arrives.
Instead better use the analogy of the louse. Each type of lice has their own species of animal. One for poultry, one for cattle, etc etc. People lice may walk across the back of a cow but won't lay eggs and set up housekeeping on one. Vice versa is true as well.
Biologically God made us all quite similar. What is different is our advanced brain that can reason and the presence of a soul. Our lice evolved along with us as we did...Does that indicate that I don't think we are God's creation. No definitely not. I just don't think the human being who was trying to explain it to a small group in an early civilization had the scientific knowledge to do so. Just as I think we are far from having God's knowledge. Creationism and Evolution are not contradictory terms in my mind. Look for example at gestation. In nine short months a tiny being that looks much like a tadpole miraculously becomes human [or a calf] in the uterus. In even a shorter time , 62 days, a puppy is formed via the same process. In the chicken egg it takes 21 days. In the horse 11 months. In the elephant 22 months. It's the same miracle I attribute to God no matter what length of time it takes.
What does it matter how men who were not knowledgeable in scientific things explain how it happened. They weren't there at the time after all. The fact is there must be something greater than we who initiated it all as it is not the work of man alone. Even evolution, which I won't go into its documentation as creationist purists have been unable to believe that human beings wrote the Bible and though they were inspired by God, they did not have the knowledge to be able to explain it fully. When we take every word in the Bible as absolute truth we are only applying our intellect to the level of a current age 4th grader. Again that is not to say anyone who does believe is ignorant, but just that they are choosing to only use a portion of the wonderful brain God has given them. I still respect those people for the good that they do on the earth but I feel that if they used their reason fully, they could see through the naivete of those log ago writers and still realize the message through the erroneous details.
Each culture has their own creation story that is just as valid as the Judeo/Christian one we have in the Bible. With the level of knowledge at the time those stories started, they are just as believable. Whether the earth being formed on the back of a turtle as in some Native American cultures, whether man was created out of melting ice and revealed by being licked dry by a giant cow as in Norse stories, we now know that either the day as we know it and typically as those who wrote the book of Genesis knew it, was not the length of time it took for the earth and its creatures to develop. It was just a period of time that could be easily explained at that time to those people. As Leo indicated the people of the period had little concept of time and even less concept of the scientific knowledge we now have I wager.
Now we know that God created the world in a much longer time than was written in the Bible but it doesn't change the belief that God was at the helm and still is. What does it really matter how long it took him anyway? I don't think he's finished with us yet as we've continued to evolve. Some of us can no longer house all of our teeth and these are now called "wisdom" teeth. Our jaws are too small. But native Americans and many from Africa still have plenty of room in their jaws for all of their teeth. Is it because Europeans stopped relying on course foods for survival earlier than those in Americas and Africa so those with "weaker" jaws could survive to reproduce and hand down that trait? What made that split occur several steps prior to Homo sapian? We might never know but those here 2000 years from now likely will. Hopefully they will also be able to separate the wheat facts from the chaff fiction of the Bible better than we do as well. Until then the issue of creationism and evolution is a debate we will continue to waste time on instead of the message it meant us to take from it. God is great. God is responsible for all we have whether directly or via things he created. We are God's hands and must do his work in order to be worthy of the love he will give us anyhow.
Like in Leviticus where it says that one must not wear clothing of two types of fiber blended together. That does not mean that when we wear a cotton polyester shirt that we are going to Hell? It just means at that time in that community there was a valid reason for not mixing linen and wool together. Maybe a clan who farmed flax was also doing something else bad and author felt he should be shunned. Maybe a shepherdess was being paid attention to by a young flax farmer and the writer wanted him to stay away from the young maiden. We will never know but we do know that it is not a sin to mix linen and wool. Same with not eating pork or rare meat. It was likely the parasites found in it that could be transmitted to man this way. They couldn't see them as they had no microscope but they put it together that when someone ate pork, especially undercooked pork, they got sick.
Those traditions still exist in Jewish and Muslim faiths and are respected as tradition and dogma like so many religions traditions are formed and people get comfort and spiritual nourishment from them. It gives them discipline and renewed strengthened faith. Just as going to church on Sundays reminds us of who we are supposed to be aspiring to be like evening though we realize we will never be able to totally. Once one is able to look at the Bible with a renewed sense of reason from God, one will then know that the details aren't what is important. The message is.
Hi Leo ,
Many agree that faith and science can coexist beautifully. However, it seems clear to me that today's creationism/ID lobby is a political power base that happily deals in science hoaxes and even promotes the astonishing biblical heresy of "accidentalism." You might enjoy this from today's Google News:
Intelligent Design Rules Out God's Sovereignty Over Chance
Gather.com, MA - Nov 22, 2008
"What proponents of so-called intelligent design have cynically omitted in their polemic is that according to Biblical tradition, chance has always been considered God's choice as well."
Way to go Leo!! You have taken a very complicated issue and made it easy to grasp and then added fantastic insight on top of it all. I am a PROUD Creationist and will not budge on it! I did NOT evolve from any creeping creature and will not accept that until fleas love my body and are as happy to dwell there as they are on animals.
God makes Himself VERY CLEAR in the Bible about how we came to be and should anyone not get it, then turn your life over to Him and ask Him when we all get to Heaven. (although I seriously doubt a debate over Creation will even be in your mind at that time)
I have always said that if a man/woman wishes to think that they "evolved" then that's fine for them. However, I don't wish to insult myself or another by suggesting that the wondrous mechanism we call a BRAIN was merely an accident. If man cannot even grasp 10% to this day of what the brain does then how can one expect to think that they can grasp the wonderment of God's creation?
Leo, I adore your Blogs and you as well. Great blog and a fantastic timeless discussion.