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What Is Going On In The Clay Community Schools Corporation?
Posted Sunday, December 7, 2008, at 10:56 AM<< Previous | Read comments | Respond | Email link | Next >>
Recently, The Board of Trustees of the Clay Community Schools Corporation voted not to renew the contracts of two administrators, on the recommendation of the superintendant. Online, at The Brazil Times website, there were many comments made on the article that appeared in that newspaper concerning that decision.
Some of the comments concern me as the students within these schools are this community's future. The employees, policies, and events within our schools have a great effect on that future as they can inspire or de-rail a student's education. Employees, especially building administrators and teachers but including every adult within the school, interact with people and set an atmosphere within the school. The tone of our schools should be open and caring but also well-disciplined in a firm but friendly manner, organized, and focused on their main objective, education. No one should be subjected to harassment from anyone, but everyone should be held to established performance and conduct standards. Sometimes, holding a person to established standards can be perceived as harassment when there was no intent. However, holding only a few to the standard without holding the rest to the standard is harassment. What disturbs me is that the apparent public and employee perception is that our school corporation is rife with a lot of personal "in-fighting" and retaliation from the Board of Trustees down into the schools themselves. "Office politics," attitudes, personality conflicts and other impediments to the smoothness of operations is a fact of life within every human organization from the smallest local church group to the United Nations. I am not surprised that we have some of these things within our school corporation; I would be surprised if we didn't! The question is do we have enough of these impediments to affect the education process and what can be done to improve the situation? We cannot be one hundred percent free of these types of impediments; we are dealing with human beings with their individuality. Even in a group of people as small as only two, having continued congeniality over a period of time would be odd. We, Mankind, are just too contrary and self-interested not to be a little bit selfish at times and rather quick to conclude that "someone" is doing us wrong. So, if we may, let us discuss some of the "problems" that you, the reader, see within the personality of our schools and school corporation. However, in the interest of privacy, please identify the subjects only as "X of School Y" or some other untraceable method. We are talking about people's actions and possible poor relationships that lead to impediments to the progress and process of educating students; we are not talking about individuals, per se, and are not on a "witch-hunt"! Leo L. Southworth Comments Showing comments in chronological order [Show most recent comments first] |
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Don't really know if this goes along with this or not but anyways here it is: My student at an elementary school was sent home three wednesday in a row with head lice, now don't judge me for the head lice my home is probally the cleanest in the county because of this i have spent will over $600 for cleaning and replacing pillows etc. Anyways on all occasions we did not find a thing on her, in fact the second time we took her and had her hair cut the same day she gets sent home. The third and final time i got pissed,I went to the office in knightsville of course the superintendent was not available but did call me later, Worthless what do you want me to do? Read on this gets interesting, i mean we could not even use the shampoo because it had not been 7 days, so my wife spent somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 hours combing her hair once again nothing, so i take her to school the next day, march into the office and inform them of her return and i wanted her hair checked in my presence and by the nurse, i got "well there is a long line at the nurse can someone else check", Hell no I'll wait. Upon waiting on this line, what line. The nurse introduces herself and proceeds to start the check, my wife states that she found a couple live eggs and a couple dead eggs, the nurse then asks how do you tell the difference? What you send kids home with lice and don't know the difference. She goes on to state she is a surgery nurse, o great a tool hander in our schools, Hey i'm a trailer builder can i be a maintence man. So i once again call knightsville i get you need to talk to head nurse, to make a story short, Well maybe i need to work with her some more. So while we fire people for not talking we hire unskilled people.
Boy Leo. You have set a task that is difficult.I warn all this is going to be long... How to document specific problems without giving specifics...As a parent who has had children in the school corporation for over 13 years now and still does at high school level, the problems I have seen have involved... Read entire epistle as some of these problems have started to be addressed as I write about further down.
1] Outdated curriculum based upon what was done in past by not paying attention to what was going on in current educational forums outside the immediate area.
2] Not pushing each student to be the best they could be but basically designing curriculum towards the middle group of students so lacking in support for the upper and lower end student.
3] Not enforcing improvement of substandard performance in certain teachers/staff AND administrators. [Whether it was poor work ethic due to chronic absenteeism or irresponsible habits or actual lack of course content coverage].
4] The board active in areas of curriculum and overriding decisions made by curriculum committees due to personal preferences that were not in best interest of the academic progress of the students.
Now in defense of the corporation...The board HAS changed in membership several times since I have moved here and it has improved and has actually reduced its micromanaging with regard to curriculum/textbook selection as it should. It has changed in that it does more outside searches to hire the most qualified person for the job from a larger pool of applicants so it also obtains a broader knowledge with those outside positions as to what works in other locations. It has tried to delegate supervisory duties when lower leveled administration was lax in their supervisory duties and it has started to send the message that performance will earn documentation at both staff and administrator levels with documentation of this.
I still believe it has some work to do on raising the ceiling for those who can achieve more during their academic years in the corporation however and due to budget constraints the numbers of times during day classes are offered, the continuing of early bird instead of an additional class period at HS level and the larger class sizes since the discontinued funding for title one at elementary level has lowered our corporation a bit more in one aspect. This is a sign of our community's poor economic status however, not due to board member whim or grudges.
I believe our current board is aware that our classes are larger than optimum and that some of our students are not getting their desired classes in high school but they cannot afford another option.
I think each of these board members has had a child go through the schools here and know its general deficits as well as its merits even if it is unaware of individual problems. I believe that they are sincerely working on the chronic problems as demonstrated by their recent actions. True that it is unfortunate that the board is having to take the action themselves and the performance issues were not able to be handled on building level but that is a symptom of a problem that is so chronic that it is still there over an entire generation. When I have a problem with a teacher's performance when my child is in elementary school and am told by a parent that they had same with that teacher when THEY were in school, that's a hard to correct problem that's inexcusable right up to the level of the school board. When a teacher is told that they are not completing curriculum requirements due to continued dissatisfaction of their teaching assignment and need to improve in that area, and don't, and on top of that the administrator does not observe to make sure that improvement is followed though with, that is a chronic problem.
On the other hand, recent changes in building administration are not going to instantly improve some of the chronic problems. The administrators are going to have to take a lot of time in observation to ensure that the few problems areas DO improve so they can document improvement accurately or further document non compliance.
My kids have had a lot of excellent teachers in this corporation who have inspired them to learn. My problems have not been with "unfair" disciplinary actions. As a matter of fact I suspect that from the kudos of my kids' teachers my kids behave better for them than they do for me.
My problems have been with a few individual teachers who have not done their job by presenting material to the students as described in course description or have had poor work ethic with regard to their attendance or lack of teaching skills [or failure to implement them]. This problem was magnified historically due to that inability or willingness of building administrators to address the problem appropriately.
I truly believe that the current board "GETS" this after so many years of previous boards wearing blinders and realizes that it is a problem that effects not only many students but many of the coworkers of these few deficient teachers and it is something that can be changed despite budgetary constraints that prevents them from improving the school in other areas.
It is starting from the top as it has not worked through the ranks as it was supposed to, even though it has been put in the public eye and is unpleasant but it is the result of so many not wanting to deal with the smaller unpleasantness of documenting deficiencies at lower levels.
It is not the first step towards change to actually start imposing policy that has been in effect but not practiced for years. I can attest that in the past year, one administrator has addressed teacher performance in areas of both non compliance with course content and issues of poor work ethic and ineffective teaching practices as I have personally been involved with them. It is not an instant fix however as he then has to give the teacher an improvement plan and then document the improvement or lack thereof over a period of time before further action can be taken. I hope that the board and superintendent give him support with regard to man hours and back up when he makes decisions on these matters so as to be effective as well as to send a clear message to others who might be deficient. It is silly to expect improvement overnight but the teachers involved need to take the documentation seriously. It is just as silly to think that those teachers already doing their jobs have anything to fear due to more recent attention to documentation of deficits. They know that they are appreciated and likewise a note or phone call to your principal should be made to praise them as well.
Not only finally enforcing policies that have been in place all along will help generally raise the educational achievements of those students in those specific classes, it will demonstrate that excellence is expected of all, not just certain teachers who choose to do right by the students. This compliance of teachers will spill over as a method of respect towards the student body and can result in an improved attitude among the students that they owe like respect for the teachers who are held to honor their job to teach them.
No. Discipline issues go beyond how a teacher acts in their classroom. There will be students who do not behave no matter how they are treated but it can only help when the students are fully aware that ALL the teachers must tow the line by respecting them and doing right by them in the classroom as well by doing their job well. The chronic non compliance by a few teachers sends a message that some don't have to do what they are supposed to while others do. That isn't respect, that's domination. So whether out of boredom when teaching isn't at the level of the student's ability, or belligerence due to one thinking there is a double standard for performance between student and his teacher, it sets some students up for being more disruptive. Not an excuse by any means, but it sets the stage for sure.
Again these issues are not about the bulk of the staff in the schools. Only a few but the problem is so chronic that it has magnified poor perception and other problems have resulted that are more long term and made it harder to correct.
Besides these the only other thing my kids have had problems with is the team approach at the middle school. I don't know if it is still working the same way but it always seemed to be feast or famine with regard to homework. Whether it be from the core teachers involved or from lack of communication with ancillary teachers outside of the group, there would be days with no homework and then many subjects in one night. I don't know if steps have been now taken to have staggering dates for due assignments or a multi day syllibus or lesson plan handed out to students so that they could plan their work load, but it never failed when they were in the middle school that they would have no homework for several days and then come home loaded down with it in many subjects all at once. Made it hard to plan a set study time at home as well as bed time.
I hope that has improved since they attended. I realize the first years of the school were transitional. By the way I see no problem with 6th grade being in same building. They are separated, are in the hall at different times, and my kids had no disciplinary problems when changing from elementary school to middle school. I think that thinking there will be makes it a self fulfilling prophecy for some as they go into it thinking it will be so loaded questions and statement are made by some of the parents in front of their kids that lead them to thinking it's ok to contest authority there more than at other schools. Maybe this is MY preconception though??? I told my kids that having multiple teachers gave them the opportunity to benefit from multiple teaching styles and to have the benefit of not having to stick with a teacher all day who might be a bit dry in lecture style. It's all how you approach it I believe. Look at positive aspects instead of negative.
My position towards the school board is that they have a monumental task that they have finally begun a few years ago just with the last board and now with the newest one. It is finally showing some of the changes they have been working on and to get where it needs to be is sometimes unpleasant and unpopular. to be a good board member is sometimes by not being a "nice" board member in eyes of the public. For too long has the board worked under good ole boy system, favoring personal friendships and links to employees over proper decisions for the education of the students. Those currently on the board may not get re elected for their popularity but hopefully they can get enough done so the staff and students can realize improvements from their decisions in that it will promote positive changes with regard to enforcement of existing policy. What people need to realize is that ignoring the lack of enforcement of policy was wasting taxpayer's money as well as educational opportunities for the students. Lack of action was more unfair to many than current action seems unfair to the few. It's just that you can put a name on the few effected and the multitude of students and other staff that have been effected for years because of lack of enforcement of policy have been anonymous.
razzmatazz: I think every family has had to deal with lice, many times brought home from other kids at school. I learned that using mayonnaise you can suffocate the little buggers but there is nothing that will replace the hours of time it takes to comb the nits from the hair unless you shave it off completely. I can understand your frustration as well as the school's. I don't think you can tell an empty egg from a full one stuck to the hair so to be sure, all need to be gone before the child returns to school in effort to break the cycle of spread. It's not a matter of cleanliness but one of simple biosecurity. Those lice can be squeaky clean but if they are still there, they can spread.
I'm going to address one remark that Jenny Moore made concerning the sixth grade in middle schools.
Over the past two decades, nationally, the trend has been to move sixth grade into middle school. Research is now available that shows that a higher percentage of children would benefit from the sixth grade being in elementary schools.
Having the sixth grade in middle school is good for the school, as funding goes with the student, but not for the students as less succeed there, due to discipline problems, and that affects more of them throughout middle school. Having the sixth grade is not good for elementary schools due to more usage of shared facilities, gym, cafeteria, media center, and that it puts more students in one building, but more sixth graders succeed under that method.
It is a money versus education decision. As that, I would rather expend the money to improve education.
razzmatazz - You brought up a problem that I had not heard of, but a valid one. Even a professional person can be hired for a position that they are not qualified or willing to learn well enough to perform. What is a surgery nurse doing serving as a school nurse, anyway? I don't recall any surgery suites in our schools and if you cannot identify a live louse egg (nit) from a dead one, why even look? I can understand your position on this.
My personal thought is that sixth graders fit in better at a middle school than they do in a building with Kndg. I think the problems may lie some where else. I do not think that one person is to blame for the problems at NCMS. There are too many hot spots for one mortal person to put out!
Jenny: my problem is not my child has head lice that does not bother me, head lice is a clean person louse. Anyways just for your info live nits are reddish brown in color and dead and hatched nits are white in color. Also the corporation policy states children can be in school with nits just no live lice can be found. The PROBLEM is that they have a surgical nurse performing as a school nurse. what if my child got a high fever at school, what would she do?
sassypants - LOL, so is where the sixth grade attends school a coin-toss? In elementary, they are the "big kids" and shouldn't have that much contact with the kindergarten, except maybe on the bus. In middle school, they're the "little kids, and shouldn't have that much contact with the older students, again, except on a bus.
What the research indicates is not that there is a problem dealing with intra-class relationships, but that a higher percentage of sixth graders in middle schools, vice elementary schools, have disciplinary problems due to immaturity. It is the disciplinary actions, in middle school, that leads some students into academic difficulty.
The research that I've seen on this recommends that the sixth grade be in elementary schools. As a matter of fact, under general information for North Clay, it is listed as "EIS Type: 4 ELEMENTARY,JR. HIGH" (their CAPS, not mine). According to the Indiana Department of Education, North Clay is not a "true" middle school.
I have to agree that the problems in the school are not the fault of any one person; but, the person in charge always the person held responsible. I was always told that a "leader" of any type could delegate authority but not responsibility.
By the way, while we are on the subject of the school corp, I have another gripe about it, no one is aware of this but me and the Leaap center, I have three children in this corp and about to pull them all and go homebound, in addtion to the un qualified school nurse, the leaap center does no longer serve hot breakfast, they serve cereal, muffins, poptarts, honey buns. They however still serve hot lunch, they state they don't have the means to fix a hot breakfast, so what is the difference between lunch and breakfast? The answer i got from food serve is, they were throwing alot of food away, SO don't the government subsidize that?? They aren't losing no money, in fact they are now making money, I don't know about you but why am i paying for a hot lunch and getting a cold one. Also i think i pay for a milk and juice, did you know that if my child doesn't drink his milk gone, the juice is not offered. This school corp is really in piss poor shape, and our school board could care less, all they wanna do is build build build, the problems do not lie in the structures they lie in the management of the operation. Leo I hope you are considering a run for school board again, because I might just join you. You know who I am. My wife babysit i think for you, was good friends with Lynn. I have a daughter in 2nd grade and twin boys at LEAAP.
Razzmatazz -- I don't know much about the LEAAP Center, while it is technically a part of our school corporation, many of its programs are not funded by the school corporation but through grants and other government programs, if I understood Mary Yelton's last report to the school board correctly.
The school corporation's personnel directory does not list any "food service" employees for the LEAAP Center and I don't know what kind of food service equipment is in the building.
razzmatazz:
I do know that between one-two years ago a new regulation governing food preparation went into effect requiring training and certification in a food safety course mandatory wherever food is prepared/cooked. It required at least one person to be present who was certified in this and requires them to actually monitor and record food temperature. I don't know but that might be part of the reason for the menu change?? There was no leeap center when my kids were little, I've only visited it. We had to pay for a preschool environment if we wanted our kids more prepared for kindergarten. Your kids are lucky in that respect. Hopefully with the poor economy those grants won't dry up for both the kids' sake and for the people who work there if that is all that is supporting it?
I think the comments about the surgery nurse are a little overstated. A surgery nurse is still a nurse. He/she is more than capable of identifying lice. If the point is that he/she was "over-qualified", well isn't that kind of the same thing as having a former principal now (or soon to be) teaching? Not that I think there is anything wrong with that either, just pointing out the similarity.
What has me concerned is that the school board kind of looks like "bad guys" when they "fire" principals. It is my understanding, or so I have been told anyway, that the school board basically had to "cancel" the contract when they did, for if they didn't by the first of the calendar year, those contracts would have rolled over for another year.
Therefore, it puts the school board in a very difficult position in that if they feel a change needs to be made, they don't have the luxury of waiting until the school year is out to do it. I'm not in the buildings or have children in them either, but having a lame-duck principal, I would think would make the inner workings of the building be uncomfortable at best, and probably even worse than that. It can't be a very good working environment to say the least.
I've never been in favor of the sixth-graders being at the middle school. Since the elementaries are being remodeled anyway, the remodel should have taken consideration for the possibilty of bringing back the sixth-graders, just in case the board and the community ever make that decision to do so. Has this been, or being considered? The domino effect of this would be beneficial on many levels as then you could move freshmen into the middle school making more room available in the high school which was overcrowded from the first day it opened. But this is a discussion for another day.
There are so many points on this blog! Where to start...
First, a nurse is a nurse, no matter what background they have. Nurses all attend the same educational processes and identifying lice is one. Now, the nurse should never have identified herself as a "surgical nurse", but the fact is she is still a nurse. Lice are very hard to identify and can be somewhat tricky at times, but it is better to be safe than sorry. As a community we are just lucky that they are placing nurses in the schools now. I know that makes me feel my child is just a little safer.
Second, the Leaap Center is a wonderful place for learning. years ago, only the children who's parents could afford to send them to pre-school recieved this type of early education. They are doing an AWESOME job and do not deserve any criticism. What they are serving there is what most people have time to serve at home. As a working mother, I am ashamed to say, most of the time a "hot" breakfast is a special treat. Cereal is our staple.
Third, I do see a problem with the 6th grade and and I do believe this is a stepping stone for further problems both behaviorally and educationally. I do not think that moving them back to the elementary school is the solution, but I think NCMS could be set up more like an elementary school in the 6th grade hall. One of the 3 teams there is call the NOBLES. It is basically 2 teachers who have the children for all of the core classes. The children have additional teachers for music, gym, computer, art, etc, but basically these teachers have them most of the day. This is great, if there is a problem a parent has 2 teachers to contact and these 2 teachers know that child very well and how they are doing in all subjects not just one! The other 2 teams are large and the children have a different teacher for all subjects. This causes problems because it makes it harder for communication between teachers and parents. Also the teachers do not have time to get to know the students.
I know that when they get to 7th or 8th grade, they will have many teachers, but most of the 6th graders are only 11 years old and expected to manage their classes. Most are not mature enough for this, and the ones that were already struggling in elementary are lost!
Why can't all the teams be set up like the Nobles, and have more than 3 teams?
Sorry I got a little wordy!
I just have a message for ClayCountyGuy. I can't believe you called the NCMS principal a lame duck. You must be scum. He is a great man and does a great job. He is a better person than you will ever be. I don't know who you are but I've known him for a long time and have the upmost respect for him. He is a total professional and does a great job at that school.
Indycar:
Calm down. Lame duck is a political term when a new person is voted in but does not yet hold office. [an elected officer continuing in office during the period between the election and the inauguration of his successor, _American Heritage Dictionary_] So the person in the position currently is called a lame duck. It means that it is more difficult to be in this position as all know he is ultimately leaving so may not view him as having as much authority. Right now President Bush is a lame duck president. It has nothing to do with his efforts, abilities, or him being great or not.
I think you would agree with Claycountyguy that it may be more difficult and a little uncomfortable for all concerned knowing that he is leaving the position. It was actually an expression of empathy, not an insult.
Being familiar with familiar political terms learned in school does not make one a scum. You might reconsider your response after you reread his comments.
Indycar,
I can not put it any better than Jenny just did for me. Just go look up the definition of the term in a dictionary and then come back and make your comment. Apparently you should have paid more attention in your civics or political science(or whatever they call it now) class. Apparently if you are labeled with anything that our "lame duck" President is, it now automatically carries with it a negative connotation.
Now while I know what the term "lame duck" means, I also know what the term "scum" means, and that is what you called me. I'm a big boy and name calling doesn't keep me awake at night. But what you were accusing me of, well you seriously need to take a long hard look in the mirror.
So other than mean-spirited name calling, what was the purpose of your comments?
Thank you Jenny.
Nicely said ClayCountyGuy.
Indy..... Slow down...... Think and learn the term. Bush is a lame duck HAHAH
My problems with North Clay are certain kids are targeted. First my son didn't get the help he needed while attending the school. Every year he didn't pass ISTEP, every year I called and said what can we do. They said "Oh nothing,he just doesn't want to do the work." 7th grade year they had Math and English labs for kids that didn't pass ISTEP, funny he slipped through the cracks. He asked me why a certain student was not going to gym and was going to these labs instead. It was already the end of the labs, when asked about it, they basically said "Oops." Finally his last year I had him tested and found he had a disability, funny none of the teachers or staff noticed. I had to ask for the testing to be done. They all thought he didn't want to do the work, that was why he wasn't passing any of his classes. They had already targeted him as a bad kid. He therefore made sure he lived up to that.
One day he wore a shirt that a couple of teachers and Dr.Allen decided was "demonic" it was an anarchy shirt. They made him take it off and turn it inside out. Funny the next week, his best friend wore his shirt, the same shirt and nothing was said. The same friend that was in all of his classes. Hmmm. His middle school years were probably the worse years for him. He was so glad when he got to Northview. Not all the teachers were bad. He had some very caring, special ones. To this day he remembers them and they are what got him through the three years he was there. This is just my experience with North Clay, not a good one. Indyguy, I'm glad you have had such a good relationship with DR.Allen, believe not all parents can say the same. When you don't have the respect of the parents or the majority of your staff, then something isn't right. I guess you haven't been on the other end of the phone talking to him, and while your child is in his office, he is rolling his eyes,while talking to you, in front of your child. Shows a total lack of respect to that parent.
With so many complaints about North Clay, why aren't things being changed?
Clay County Girl
Where were you last night????
Wow, funny how you learn things when you communicate with people.....lol. I didn't know that the different teams at NCMS operated differently with varying staffing levels.
ClayCountyGuy asked if the plan to remodel the elementary schools took into consideration the possibility of putting the sixth grade back into them. That was not mentioned at the public meetings except by Forrest Buell. If it was considered, "in committee", it didn't make it into the plans. With the plans as they are, there is no room to do it. This is another one of the items where research indicates an option that would improve education within the corporation; yet, apparently, the research was not looked at or was disregarded in favor of maintaining the status quo.
As far as Northview's size, they have changed the DOE's data base lately by dropping some of the oldest information so I cannot confirm this; but I recall checking the enrollment for the school several months ago. I believe that Northview was built at a point in the communities' history when high school enrollment was at a low point. Northview's enrollment for the 07-08 school year was 1188, the second highest enrollment in the data available; however, I recall that enrollment has been even higher than what is shown in the data. I can see a benefit to moving the ninth grade into the NCMS if we moved the sixth grade back to the elementary levels.
Knightmom brought up a point on the nurse. She is correct that nurses all receive the same basic education and that the individual should not have identified herself as a "surgical" nurse; in the corporation there is no such job title. One of the duties of a school nurse would be to identify lice and it would be helpful if the person responsible either knew how to do that or learned how to do that portion of the job……….LOL! I mean, we are paying people to do the job we hired them to do, aren't we?
Like Kightmom, I think that the LEAAP Center is a big asset to the corporation. From the report, several months ago, on our kindergarten program, many of our students start their education one to two years behind their peers nationally. The LEAAP Center helps get a few more a better start. On the other end of the educational process, the LEAAP Center helps people to earn the GED if they don't graduate and so desire.
Claycountry girl brought up the fact that people get "targeted" at NCMS. I say that it is a fact because it happens in every human organization, unfortunately. If you think about it, you will realize that it is true. There is little that can be done about it, replacing the entire staff would only mean that different people would get "targeted".
I am kind of worried that her son's learning disability went un-noticed until he was in middle school and then only when she had to request testing. Without having knowledge of the student's records, I wonder if the elementary school had to provide extra help, the change to middle school affected him, or his learning disability manifested itself suddenly for other reasons.
The boys' "experiment" with the "demonic" shirt is a classic……….lol! Funny how that works! I wish that they had taken pictures, with the dates, and laid them side-by-side on an administrator's desk with a question of "Why is it okay for one but not the other?"
As for relationships with a certain person, any person, people are going to have different views due to their perspective and the circumstances. If you step into my garage when I'm working on something and things aren't going right, you would probably leave without speaking to me…….LOL! If you knock on my door, we could probably sit and talk through a couple of pots of coffee…..LOL! If you tell me something that I've heard a thousand times from a thousand people, I probably would roll my eyes, too. I would try not to, but I might do it. After several years in a job dealing with people, you pretty much have heard just about everything that there is to say. Perhaps, and this is pure conjecture, that is what happened to Dr. Allen; he simply lost the ability to put himself in the other person's place and share their concern.
Claycountrygirl asks the question "why aren't things being changed?" Aren't they? Replacing the principal is a change, isn't it? There are other changes that can be made, agreed, but change takes time and, hopefully, thought. We, as a community, need to keep working to provide the best education that we can to our students while controlling the costs to keep within the budget. Our schools will always be "works in progress" until the day that the buildings crumble.
Knightmom………….don't worry too much about wordiness………….LOL!!!!!
Everyone is so "excited" about this change. Better be careful what you wish for. Who knows who the next person will be. Change is not always for the best. Some school board members may have "people" in mind. Hope they give THEM what they are looking for
Sassypants:
As I have asked the corporation MANY times before, maybe we should ask again for them to do an advertised outside search when filling the position of principal of NCMS. It doesn't matter why the position is open but we owe it to the kids to have the best available person in the position. Too many times a person is hired from within the corporation and we miss seeing a greater pool of applicants. that's not to say we should eliminate those applying from within the corporation. Just that we need to compare all resumes and not just choose from a small pool.
I encourage all to let the superintendent and board know how you feel if this is something you care about. When this isn't done it gives the perception that we "settled" for what was available locally, even if that person WAS the best one for the job. The point is we will never know if we don't look.
I agree that all possible avenues should be searched when hiring the new person. I do let the school board know how I feel about things. I try to make my voice count.
I am just saying that new isn't always better!
sassypants........lol..... Sometimes it is easier to deal with the devil that you know rather than a devil that you don't know! Agreed, new and different isn't always better!
Leo L. Southworth
FlyinLion, my son was tested in elementary school and was borderline. I brought all the testing material to the middle school gave the material to his counselor and told her about some of his problems. She thanked me and sent it back home with him the next day. They should have been aware there was a possible problem.
They also felt he had to many friends that were girls, and faulted HIM, because so many girls were around him during the school hours. Instead of sending emails to the teachers saying "Hey should you see this happening, send the guys AND the girls to their classes." this was their solution: They took two of his best friends into the conference room and asked them to "rescue" him when they see him surrounded by girls. That worked for a couple of times. Then the guys got smart. They just started hanging out with him and the girls too. The "problem" still there.
Unoit, I too have two kids totally different. NV does target certain students too, but we found they worked with us more too. I had a much better relationship with them. I hope the changes aren't too late for North Clay. I wish I would have been at the board meeting, but I guess like most, I figured it didn't matter what I had to say. For the three years I fought for my son at North Clay, it didn't seem to matter. I guess I felt defeated.
Leo
I think alot of people were like you and don't realize the difference in the teams. I wonder if anyone has done a study to see if 6th grade students in the NOBLES group have less behavior issues or less difficulty transitioning to middle school.
I also wonder why the groups were originally set up differently? And why children who were already struggling in elementary aren't put into the smaller group?
I have discussed my theory with a board member and I hope they look into this.
I would also like to say, I know at the last school board meeting people were asking where are the people who support the boards decision not to renew the 2 contracts. If all these teachers who came to the meeting were in support of Dr. Allen, who would want to stand up and say something negative and then have your child have to face those teachers the next day? I am just saying, just because people don't speak out publically doesn't mean there aren't issues there.
Claycountygirl:
I'm not exactly sure I understand the boy/girl issue you speak about but it doesn't matter. What matters is that you don't give up. I have discovered that it takes about 3 times as long to really get a problem addressed properly than you think it should. Improvement process is slow. While some of the things we work on with the corporation might not improve in time for our own children, maybe they will for others down the line. What many people have done is just remove their child from certain situations but that doesn't fix the problem for others [not saying you did this but many do].
If we don't start the improvement process when we are made aware of it by asking for documentation, it will never improve and continue year after year. This has happened too many times in this corporation. Even to the point of children having to deal with same problems as their parents did and not only the ones of their older siblings. Then you have the good corporation staff who have to work along side a person who is not corrected...Think of all those years of stress seeing the problem and not being able to correct it themselves due to their position.
we parents are the ones who can take the initial step to get things done when we see it. While we would like problems to be corrected during our childrens' career at the school, more than likely it will take a lot longer unless our kids are REALLY spread apart in age.
I started speaking out for for all day kindergarten in 1996 along with other parents. Now I can't take credit for its final implementation even now but it helped initial steps to have people look at the results in other locations when it is in place. Same with stopping the weighted grade system. We spoke against it before it was implemented, pointed out problems with it for the years it was in place and finally now it is gone for my younger kids. Now I just hope we can get a 7 period day into the high school before my kids are gone so they can be on equal footing with surrounding schools. I think we are close and I am hoping that this "Good news" the board promised but could not reveal the other night is to announce that it has finally been approved by the teacher's union.
It takes many people a long time to get improvements, whether in curriculum or to correct a staff performance problem. I understand your feeling of defeat BELIEVE ME I know. Hang in there. You might not have helped your son as much as you would have liked to but your son knows that you were there for him and you can be assured that in some way you helped change things for other kids in the future. Who knows? Maybe your dealings at North Clay was part of the information the board had that helped them with their decision?? Many times we never find out the details but we can't NOT do anything when we feel something is wrong as then nothing will improve.
Our kids, just like all of us, will continue to go through life finding situations that are unequal or unjust. Hopefully they will learn to try to change things for the better but also realize that some things will remain unfair even with their efforts. Sometimes we try to change things for others so they won't have to go through the same thing we or our kids had to.
Jenny, you sure have a lot of time to analyze and scrutinize everything involving education in this county. I would think you could do more by applying for one of these administrative positions and enacted real change from within the corporation. I have many friends who are teachers who would like to enact change but are muzzled by laws that even though intended to help special needs students have hindered and in many ways hurt progress. INCLUSION is not working in all cases and has done more to hurt schools then help. Talk to the special ed lobby/Special Ed. interest and our politicians to do what is best for all kids and not what is best for the wallet.
I have time?? Yes I am lucky in some respects that I am not punching a clock but would trade in a minute if the trade included taking a disabling back and joint condition with it. I am from a family of educators, my husband is one, I worked in a teaching setting professionally for years and I am a believer in life long education. I have seen what works in other places I've been involved in management and motherhood; volunteer as I am able to, and stay engaged in groups that involve interaction of ideas and critical thinking and initiate a change out of stagnation. I read all I can get my hands on fiction and non, and our family's dinner table is many times like a United Nations debate forum due to the many cultures that share it.
But no, I do not have enough formal schooling to be qualified for an administrative position in education. I know just enough to be a Socrates modeled gadfly to annoy some, raise questions for others, and hopefully nudge a few more into action so the squeak of the wheel is loud enough to be too annoying to ignore.
I am not politically correct nor patient enough to be a school board member and not "nice" enough not to bring up unpleasant subjects when I feel they need to be addressed directly. This I admit shuts some down from wanting to interact with me as I find it extremely difficult to self muzzle at times [lol].
I do believe however that it doesn't take an insider to initiate change. A single person cannot do it though. It takes many and it takes those who can hang on like a pitt bull long enough to make it happen as many who do not want change can hold off the annoyance of a gadfly for quite a long while before they have to acknowledge it. In schools for instance a parent usually loses interest in things once their child is finished dealing with an issue. Those who have kids spread out over 8 years as I do stick around a little longer and hopefully by the time I move on to another project I will have inspired others to take over. When the target of our buzzing finally realizes we're not leaving, they will take notice. No matter if it's the school system, immigration, homophobia, national politics, poverty, etc etc. No one person or government can make change. [Yes it takes leadership to set the tone just as it takes leadership in the schools to set tone, but it takes the masses to enact it ful-ly].
Think of what we could do if each one of us thought we made just a little difference in the world? It's when we think we can do nothing so don't do anything that we become a self fulfilling prophecy.
Most recently I have seen this happen with our recent presidential campaign. No matter who your candidate was, so many more people were empowered to vote. Even if your candidate lost, this alone was a great accomplishment for our country and it took each little individual who took part, registered maybe for their first time ever, and voted to do it. More people were convinced that they individually made a difference in this election. It was a wonderful time to be a part of our country and even better when working for the candidates. It has truly inspired me to just try to do that little bit more in all I do. From squeezing a little more out of my budget so I drop money in the pot each time I see a salvation army bucket this season, to being a little more prepared in order to hopefully see one more "I get it" expression in the eye of a student I help, or one more batch of cookies to the blood drive so one more student might be enticed to give a pint this time around.
Any body can do it. Just takes time.
What I never seem to have trouble with though is finding one more word/sentence/paragraph to write..[lol].