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Opinion versus Fact, Which Decides?Posted Wednesday, June 17, 2009, at 9:23 AM
My concern is that our school corporation constantly and consistently pays for opinions instead of seeking the facts before making decisions. The School Climate Survey, recently conducted, has as much relevance, for all of Dr. Gruenert's hard work and expertise, as asking the question of "What is the best flavor of cake?" of a person who has never tasted a cake other than a Twinkie. The predictable answer is a Twinkie! The predictable outcome of the survey is that the corporation is doing what the uninformed public expects, although the 60-40 split on the question of the sixth grade in the middle school appears to indicate, to me, that that may need further attention.
In the case of this survey, many people were asked questions when those people had no way to compare different outcomes from different circumstances. People in this community deal with a very limited number of schools, so their comparison or opinion is limited to what they know and their experiences. Just who received one of the 9,000 questionnaires sent out and what was the criteria for selecting those people? One of my relatives received two of them, but I did not receive one. We both are parents of students. If all 9,000 questionnaires contained the envelopes with $1.41 prepaid postage, as both of hers did, I think that over $9,000.00 of tax money that was paid for education was wasted on a survey of little relevance. Frankly, the state of education on the national, state and local levels has me worried about the fate of this nation, this state and this community. I fail to understand how any entity that touts life-long learning can determine progress towards such a goal with sporadic testing in a very limited range of subjects with tests such as the ISTEP or base the granting of diplomas on the Graduation Qualification Examination. While these tests indicate proficiency in certain subjects at a particular time, they do not indicate that a person has learned how to learn other things or that even the subjects tested were reinforced sufficiently for long-term retention. What the tests prove is that, at that point, a person could pass the test. In this ever-changing world, passing a test is not the problem; constantly learning and adapting is what a person must do. When I think of how we are not preparing our students for the future, I think of elementary school principals declaring the 2008-09 school year a success knowing that our high-school dropouts are not tracked back to the elementary level to find out where those children have been failed by our school system. I think of middle school and high school administrator's and teacher's complaints that students enter their buildings and classrooms unprepared for that grade level. I sit here and think of a student who has a report card full of "F's" that is advancing to the next grade level with no summer school for remediation, yet the taxpayer pays for extra-curricular activities, coaches and bus transportation in support of these non-academic exercises during the summer break. I think of being informed that summer school was only for preparation for the ISTEP with, apparently, no other educational goal such as remediation to help a student attain grade level. I think of students who have failed to make grade level being advanced to preserve their self-esteem who will be denied a diploma for failing to pass a test without regard to their self-esteem or the fact that they just wasted twelve years of their lives in a system that would not tell them that they were not making the grade so they would know they had to work harder. I think of a school board that does not want a public forum or discussion about our schools and their operation where the hard questions are asked and the answers demanded by members of the public. I think of a school corporation that is willing to spend money on the façade of high-security entrances in our buildings, yet will not adopt a policy of keeping all other entrances to the buildings secured and enforcing that policy with disciplinary action. I think of a school corporation that is preparing to buy a building to house its transportation department that is twice the size and on twice the land than what the school corporation had planned to build two years ago to house both the transportation department and the building maintenance department without regard to the future cost of operating separate facilities and the removal of excessive property from the tax rolls. I think of a school corporation that does not seek the most effective and economical method of operation by finding out what the facts are and taking the course that the facts indicate even if that is not the course indicated by opinion. The school corporation needs to look at the facts as the basis of making decisions. Opinions are great, but you must remember that opinions are a matter of perception that does not need to reflect reality. At points in our history, the opinion was that the Earth was the center of the universe, the Earth was flat and you could sail off the edge, and that it was right and proper for a person to be the property of another. These things are not so. Neither is the opinion that our school system or school corporation is doing the best for all concerned. Comments Showing comments in chronological order [Show most recent comments first] |
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Since when does the school corporation pay for bus transportation and summer extra curricular activities? Where did this fact come from?
I have had three of my children finish their High School Education at CCS. They have all gone on to college. The education they got was top notch. We all have thoughts but your non positive stance 90% of the time gets old.
Well ... thanks for sharing your OPINION.
Wiseupnow -- Are there any transfers of funds from the extra-curricular fund accounts to the transportation fund to pay for transportation fund to cover fuel expenditures and "wear and tear" on the buses? I did not find any in the last published school corporation budget. Was there any transfers to the General Fund to pay for coaches' salaries?
We are funding extra-curricular activities that contribute to the education of our top and middle of the socio-economic scale students but not remediation of academics to bring students at the low end of the socio-economic scale up to grade level so they have the best chance of graduating and "breaking out" of their poverty. These are the students most likely to stay within the community so educating them to their potential is in the best interest of this community.
coachB - Thank you for illustrating my point that people form their opinion based on what they are familiar with regardless of actuality. How did your children receive a "top-notch" education in an average school corporation in an average state school system in a nation that is rated about fifth in the world as far as education is concerned? I find it unlikely when the facts are revealed. Had they attended the schools in Carmel, Indiana, that are rated as some of the best in the country, I would then believe that they may have received the best education that Indiana has to offer.
Yes, I make many negative comments about education in the corporation. That is because I point out things that can and should be done better. We can do better and we should for the future of the students and the community, but no one works to resolve a problem until they realize that there is a problem.
Sir
I grew up and went to school in one of the top school systems in Indiana. I have family in the Carmel and Fischer School System. I do have a multiple experience in a variety of school corporations. I have worked in a corporation in one of the lowest economic counties in the state. I have also worked in one of the larger in the state. So your comment " form their opinion based on what they are familiar with regardless of actuality "is incorrect. How did your children receive a "top-notch" education in an average school corporation in an average state school system in a nation that is rated about fifth in the world as far as education is concerned? My three oldest have five college degrees between them. It boils down to effort; they are making the most of what they have before them. Their felt that they were prepared for college above and beyond a lot of their counter parts from the US and abroad. It might not be the best but things have changed since I was a student in an Indiana public School. One of my parents was and still is a strong education advocate for early intervention programs such as Head Start and many more. Why not point out how those types of programs have helped. You have not done much of that have you? Yes, your negative comments point out your opinion. My question would be what is yours based on? How many different school experiences do you draw upon. Not that it is important to talk about issues. We can always do better but what makes your items better that others? I think if you ask most people in Clay County they would agree that we can do better. The point is what we do about it. So what will you do besides being so down on everything? I rarely see you pointing out the things that do work. Wonder why?
I truly appreciate the comments of coachB. It is high time that someone points out that Leo is a wet blanket and is just on here to complain. I wish he would utilize his energy to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem.
Exactly, there is no transfer of funds because none is made for summer activities and the coaches get no extra for the summer programs they organize. Any other costs are taken from that sport's fund and not the school corporation's money is what I've been told.
The Jump Start program is also available 2 weeks before school starts for remediation purposes. When I was in school, summer school was for the students who were not able to achieve during the regular school year. Maybe the focus needs to be on why this is happening in the first place rather than complaining because no other summer school remediation programs are being made available.
Students CAN get a decent education in this county BUT they have to make a huge effort. The problem is that the bulk of the population is under the impression that if they let their kids float through the system without having a buyer beware attitude that they too will get the education that will prepare them to be competitive in college/work arena. That is absolutely not true. While the students from families involved in academics whether in CCSC or at another institution know the pluses and minuses of CCSC and what courses to take and what teachers to try to avoid, the bulk of the population does not and does not think it needs to invest the time to learn how to get the most out of CCSC. That is the tragedy here. Those are the students we loose in the system because the average course level choices they make are far below those in other corporations. Only when they make the most rigorous course selection are they then getting the decent education. Our
average course selections that many students are taking is below average compared to other corporations...and we continue to remove class sections [I have witnessed this since 1999 when my oldest started high school at Northview] so it is more difficult to take multiple high level courses. This year Mr Rayle has attempted to put more teachers back into the regular school day so maybe more class sections will be available but I must ask if these are going to increase the high level options or just increase choices in the "average" courses which are below average compared to other areas...AND to do this he has had to eliminate the teachers led classes that were available in early bird sections, leaving only the computer to interact with the student, only earning credit via memorization, not true learning as when a teacher is there to stimulate the thinking process. Jury is still out in my mind as I believe this a lateral move at best and for some another step backwards.
CoachB -- You do not have to call me "Sir". "Leo" is just fine, more personable, and more fitting to a discussion.
You post tells me that you are more familiar with education than most of the population, are middle-class, and are educated. You are on of the taxpayers who are doing the supporting, not one of the supported. Have you ever looked at or lived on the "dirty" side of the street as do about a quarter of our population?
I am glad for your three oldest and congratulations to them on their five college degrees. Obviously, they had the funding available and the inspiration of their parents to become "supporters" instead of supported. Your children, mine, Jenny Moore's, Cubbiefan's, and the rest that will get "the push from behind" that will allow them to get an education out of the Clay Community Schools are not the ones that I'm worried about. I worry about the ones that don't get the push and end up in poverty, supported by the educated and working, unqualified to compete for jobs that require little education but where education is necessary to be in the competition, and so dissatisfied with the conditions of their lifestyle that they choose to withdraw from participation through substance abuse or try to achieve a better financial status through illegal means. Intervention methods and programs are great, however, are we reaching as many as we should or could by concentrating on education instead of the trappings that we associate with education?
Your post shows that you are looking around "inside the box"; I'm looking from outside of the box. I'm no expert and would call anyone who termed me so as a liar. I do not recognize anyone as an expert. There are no experts, period. It takes all of us to do what is being done and it will take all of us to improve. Far too many people stop thinking when they think that someone is more qualified to think than they are and I learned a long time ago that a good idea sometimes comes from the person thought to be the least qualified.
My assessment of education is based upon my travels through life, from Clay County to observations made in over forty countries, and from the data available to me through the use of the Internet.
You state that I rarely point out things that do work and you wonder why. Is there a need to fix something that isn't broken?
My goal is to maximize education (for everyone) at minimum cost to the taxpayer. Within the boundaries of the law and the willingness of the taxpayer, we must spend every dollar wisely. When money is being spent in ways that do not deliver education in the most effective way, changes need to be made. That is what I see and what I'm working for.
Cubbiefan -- I appreciate everybody's comments. I do not appreciate personal attacks nor are they helpful in solving problems. I am part of the solution. I'm trying to improve education and our community based upon what I see. This blog, among other things, is a way to raise awareness and discussion as the school corporation will not. What are you doing?
Our school corporation does about 10% outstandingly well, 80% average, and 10% below average, in all things. It fits a "bell curve". I write about things in the low end of that curve, things that can be done better, in my opinion. There is little need for me to tout our successes, they are touted by many people within the corporation staff or the school board.
Wiseupnow -- I cannot confirm or deny what you state in your post, the published budget did not detail expenditures from various extra-curricular funds that comprise the Extra-Curricular Fund; however, the State Board of Accounts Manual for Public Schools does state that coaches are a separate budget item from teachers and are paid out of the General Fund. Summer School Programs are also a separate budget item.
Jump Start is obviously not working as well as it should, judging from the complaints coming from the middle and high schools about students that are not at grade level. Many of these students need more than two weeks of remediation. The more that we can help to improve, the better off the community and the students will be.
Extra-curricular activities are trappings of education that we have grown to expect our schools to have, but they are not required by law. Schools elsewhere in the nation are exploring alternate ways of funding such programs to put dollars intended for education back into the classroom.
I am guessing that Leo has had some relatives who were not successful in school and I hope they have overcome that (military is a good option). I think CoachB has hit the nail on the head. It starts at home with parents who are involved and invested in their children. If people bring wonderful children into the world, THEY should be responsible for them and their actions. We look at the schools to raise our kids and then slap them down anytime they want to discipline kids. You can't have it both ways. We need to educate parents first before we can make any head way with students who struggle with academics, morals, work ethics, and character issues. Parents have to have these traits to be able to pass them off to their offspring. Some of the young people I respect the most are those who overcome the shortcomings of character in their parents and are still able to develop it themselves through life experiences such as school, band or being involved in sports. This is my opinion!
Mrs Positive:
So if we have children in this community whose parents do not care OR do not themselves have the knowledge on how to be advocates for their children what do you suggest we do to make sure those kids don't grow up to be just like their parents?
Not everyone in Clay County realizes the value of a competitive education so it is even more important for those who do to be advocates for ALL of our county's children if just for the financial success of the county if nothing else. The county cannot be successful if its individuals are not. If those responsible for education do not get it across to kids and their parents by raising the bar for ALL students instead of just putting education out there for them to pick and choose what they like from the table, our county and its citizens will never be able to compete with other areas.
While it may not be ideal, it is also our duty to take care of our community and its members. It's not the kids' fault that their parents don't do their job. Do we just let them loose their chance and become the working poor, druggies, and welfare recipients?
What would you do?
Miss Positive -- Sincerely, thank you for your opinion.
I've been a resident of this county, excepting military service of twelve years and four years I lived elsewhere, since 1968. Prior to that, I lived in Owen and Greene counties as a boy. I am related to a lot of people in Clay County and friends or acquainted with many more.
You are correct with your guess that I have had a few relatives that didn't do well in school; but I also have relatives that did.
I agree that parents should be involved and invested in their children; but I am also aware that many are not. That puts an extra burden on our schools to not only educate the student, but also to teach them about what society expects as far as acceptable behavior is concerned. I was absolutely flabbergasted at a school board meeting in October of 2007 when Dr. Allen made a statement that students were expelled from middle school after the fifteenth or twentieth time of being caught chewing gum. To me, that was far too many occurrences of a violation of a rule for a policy to have any effect. The same goes for a lot of other infractions. Our schools spend a lot of time and money trying to correct behavior patterns that should be going into actual education instead. I'm not in favor of our schools having to raise children, but it appears to be a task that the schools get stuck with when parents abdicate their responsibility. That is not going to change until society changes it. We must hold parents accountable, not just the child at school. When the school takes the student out of class for "in school suspension" or expels the child for discipline, we are just robbing the child of an education.
So, how do we hold a parent responsible? How do we educate the parent when they will not respond to talk. Society must provide some penalty for failure to parent to society's standard. We have laws to do that on the books already, but they do not come into play until long after the damage has already been done to the child/student. To bring legal action sooner becomes a question of a parent's right to parent in their own fashion against the child's right to an education.
"It takes a village" is something that is very true. But, the majority within the village must care and be aware before the village will take any action.
Mrs. Positive - First, sorry I put the wrong title in yur name in my last post.
Second, perhaps you were unaware that the military no longer accepts applicants without a high school diploma or GED. 75% of the young men in this nation are unqualified for military service due to lack of education, criminal record, or for medical reasons.
Leo makes a good point when he says we must change society as to the importance of education.
If we have lost a portion of the parent age population already, why not work on their children so that they can later be better education advocates for THEIR children?
Many in this community see the problems [like crime/drugs/pregnancy in teens] but don't seem to realize that education that allows more choices is what will curtail it, not more prisons and welfare funds. Need to prevent the situation before it occurs, not manage it after the fact.
There has been a lot of rhetoric on this subject but little or no concrete suggestions. It is great to say we must change society. Or that we must get the parents involved. Or that we must work around the parents that do not care.
How do we do any of these thing? We need concrete suggestions not vague talk. When any of you have a positive action plan that has some specific talking points ... well then we might accomplish something measurable.
All this sounds too much like the same gas we hear from most of our elected officials. It does not matter if on the local or national level. All generic generalities and nothing you can actually do right now.
Backhome...
I have gone to school board meetings and pleaded for them to follow some of what various past survey's have taught [change school lines and bring class numbers to where more elementaries have enough of each grade to have two OR three classes, not 2.5]. Use technology like we do for meetings to take classrooms down to Clay City so those kids can have more courses available to them, go to trimester to bring us up to par with other areas...AND stop trading kids' academic opportunities in order to maintain extra curriculars. They are "nice" but they don't get these graduates jobs or college placements/scholarships. those one room school houses every one talks about didn't have football or band. In these times hard choices need to be made but community isn't willing to make them so they vote in politicians who make unwise promises like not closing schools and keeping EC's when these are not pro education choices, only re-election ones. The community speaks through its election process. All of these things have some out of surveys and studies but no one takes action on them because it isn't popular.
I'm not popular either when I tell my kids to turn off TV and study but someone still has to do it. Time to stop being buddies and start being advocates for these students. Class size is important. Not school size, not which school one attends. Priorities just really screwed up here.
Quote:
"75% of the young men in this nation are unqualified for military service due to lack of education, criminal record, or for medical reasons."
Source??
Also, do you find that "young men" who are not qualified to serve their country due to medical reasons in the same catagory as those with a record or did not graduate from h.s.??