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Humane Society rejects contract offer

Thursday, January 1, 2009

City residents may no longer be able to call upon the Clay County Humane Society for assistance regarding animal control issues.

During Wednesday's special meeting, the Common Council of the City of Brazil and the Humane Society were unable to come to terms on a new contract for 2009.

In a meeting earlier this month, the council offered $12,500 for animal control services, but Wednesday, the Humane Society responded by saying it would accept no less than the $25,000 they had been receiving in recent years.

"It is an unfortunate situation," Humane Society Board Treasurer Ed Gallatin told the council. "But, we just can't provide services for that low of an amount."

This was the third instance where the two sides met to discuss a potential contract renewal, and the council continuously informed the Humane Society all city departments were in a situation where budgets had to be cut and the city couldn't afford to offer any more than they had.

Sam Glover
"We had to cut costs across the board," council member Sam Glover said. "We didn't just go after the Humane Society and the fact is, things will probably be worse next year."

Many of the council members asked the Humane Society if they would still respond to calls from city residents because they should still be included under the county's contract with the shelter.

However, the Humane Society was unable to give a clear response.

"If a call comes through the Clay County Sheriff's Department, we will respond," Gallatin initially said.

But other Humane Society representatives said the board had agreed not to respond to any calls within the city if no contract was in place.

"I hate to see the people who pay taxes to the county not receive services," Glover said in response to the confusion. "The Humane Society's appropriation from the county should cover services to the city as well since Brazil is part of the county."

Humane Shelter Manager Rick Moore told the council services would still be minimal, if any at all, even if they accepted the $12,500 offer.

"You have to look at what services you would be able to receive for $12,500, which would be absolutely nothing," he said.

Mayor Ann Bradshaw quickly responded, "We didn't receive the amount of services we should have for the $25,000 either," she said.

Council President Bill Lovett asked the Humane Society if they responded to calls from other cities in the county, like Clay City, which do not have a separate contract, to which he received no answer.

Humane Society Board President Bill Bell told the council its costs $35,000-$40,000 to respond to calls within the city alone.

"It costs about $4.50 per day per animal to feed and keep them at the shelter," Moore added. "How are we supposed to make up the extra funds? If we get half the money, we can only take half the animals."

Bradshaw questioned the motives for turning down the offer if the Humane Society is struggling.

"If the shelter is having such a rough time, then why are you turning down the offer for $12,500?" she asked.

Brazil Clerk-Treasurer Karen McQueen followed up on Bradshaw's comments by explaining the city was not singling them out by proposing the cut.

"The $12,500 offer is not a punishment," McQueen said. "We have asked every department to make significant cuts."

However, the Humane Society remained staunch in requesting the full amount.

"We are just looking at what services we can provide for what dollars," Gallatin said.

Despite not being able to create a contract for this year, the Humane Society said it would not be averse to trying again next year.

"Hopefully we can work something out in the future," Moore said.

In other business during Wednesday's meeting, the council:

* Made one modification to its Personnel Policies Handbook and approved it for 2009. The modification leaves dress code policies to the discretion of the Mayor and supervisors of each respective department,

* Passed a resolution asking for the redistribution of the maximum property tax levy for the upcoming year. After reviewing the budget, it was discovered some city department would be receiving more than they were going to need, which would create a shortfall in the General Fund. McQueen said she had discussed the issue with the Department of Local Government Finance, who was favorable to the redistribution, and

* Passed a separate resolution allowing the city to transfer excess funds within various department to cover cases of minimal overspending. McQueen explained in each case, the departments had enough funds leftover to cover the expenses.

The next regular meeting of the Common Council of the City of Brazil will be Tuesday, Jan. 13, 2009, in the Council Chambers at Brazil City Hall.

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The Humane Society must not understand the cities current state of finances. The $4.50 per animal cost is per animal. How many animals does the Humane Shelter pick up from the city? Citizens pay county taxes that live in Clay County. Brazil is in Clay County, so that means you are also paying county taxes. Why should citizens living in the city limits be charged to pay double for the Humane Shelter? I guess the Humane Shelter seems to think that Brazil is no longer in Clay County.

I do understand that they are having funding issues to. However, we should all work together to help one another. Rejecting this contract certainly isn't showing they are willing to work together with the city.

-- Posted by Criminology08 on Thu, Jan 1, 2009, at 7:35 PM

maybe because they pick up so many animals in brazil? thats they only place you see them.

-- Posted by kd323 on Thu, Jan 1, 2009, at 7:54 PM

I agree with Criminology08. I pay county taxes, yet if I call and am denied services, is that fair?

But the shelter will respond if it's in the county but not Brazil? How much more does it cost to go to Clay City to pick up an animal than it does to pick one up in Brazil?

Could shelter manager Rick Moore provide some numbers about how many calls came in from within the city limits and how many were not in the limits? I'd like to see some numbers backing up his claims.

-- Posted by Civisi on Thu, Jan 1, 2009, at 8:45 PM

Can they explain why it cost $35,000 to $40,000 to serve the city. This estimate seems a bit extreme. By the way, has any one done any homework to see what other animal shelters are receiving and how they are funded. For example, Owen County only receives approximatly $12,000 per year city and town combined! Maybe someone should examine the humane socieities financies and help them look for ways to make the cuts like everyone else in America as. Good luck city officials, I know you've got a hard road ahead of you.

-- Posted by Partrosie on Thu, Jan 1, 2009, at 9:37 PM

That makes sense, there are a ton of loose and stray dogs in Brazil, so they must do a pretty good job at picking them up?

-- Posted by Criminology08 on Thu, Jan 1, 2009, at 9:51 PM

Does all the money donated to the shelter get to the right place? I would still like to see some book work and accountibility.

-- Posted by george1 on Fri, Jan 2, 2009, at 6:46 AM

I called the Humane society last week about a stray cat that was breaking into my house through a broken window in the basement. I was told that they didn't help with stray cats. If I was having trouble I needed to catch it and bring it to them. Seeing as how I was at work and my under the age of 16 girls were at home, that really wasn't possible.

This place has now just dug themselves deeper into a hole. They have been a mess for years.

The really sad part in all of this is that the animals will suffer and the neighborhoods will fill with these poor creatures.


-- Posted by sassypants on Fri, Jan 2, 2009, at 6:51 AM

Mrs. Bradshaw is complaining the City didn't receive the amount of services the city paid for! What about us tax payers, do we receive road managament we pay for, the city streets are the worst in the state. What about the Fire Department. They don't do emergency runs unless it is Great Dane or Cooper, Meridian or Jackson Towers!! Looks to me like the Mayor ought so see the WHOLE PICTURE when it comes to the city finances. The Humane Society does what it can just like everyone elso. So don't throw stones in a glass house!

-- Posted by ccc on Fri, Jan 2, 2009, at 6:53 AM

I still believe we are going about this the wrong way. Make dog ownership cost more due to licensing fees that are worth going after with fines for those who don't license and rabies immunize their dogs. That would cover some of the stray dog shelter costs so they would burden the taxpayers who DON'T choose to have dogs. Then this issue wouldn't be such a big deal as there would be money to draw from.

That said I have taken stray animals that are dropped out here in the county and have not had to pay a fee for dropping them off. I do think though that some who live out in county get rid of these abandoned animals on their own [read shoot, shovel, shut up] so the county demands might well be lower than the city's where so many live closer together.

Loose dogs are just as big of a problem though in county. When someone in our family goes running, they always carry pepper spray. Between the mobile meth labs and roaming dogs I think it may now be safer to run in a big city than out in the country.

-- Posted by Jenny Moore on Fri, Jan 2, 2009, at 7:01 AM


"They don't do emergency runs unless it is Great Dane or Cooper, Meridian or Jackson Towers!!"

What the hell are you on?

-- Posted by Dagnabbit on Fri, Jan 2, 2009, at 7:04 AM

Exactly, what are you on. The city finances are the most organized they have been in years, thanks to Karen McQueen and Ann Bradshaw and the council.

I like Jenny Moore's constructive comment. That is how the shelter should be thinking. I would love to see how they have implemented different programs and are trying different funding options. When are the board meetings??

I have called the shelter before about the cats that live in my neighborhood and I have got the run around. At one time I counted over 25 cats on someones porch. The police did all they could but the shelter said they couldn't do anything about it. The cats use the restroom all over my front yard. I've tried all I can and started trapping them myself. But don't think I took them to the shelter, no... they wouldn't accept the trapped cats unless I paid for each cat.

-- Posted by Criminology08 on Fri, Jan 2, 2009, at 7:36 AM

If the actual cost of housing each animal is $4.50 per day, it is obvious that $25,000 does not do a great deal of good. 15 animals @$4.50 is $67.50 per day x 365 is $24,637,50. At this rate ($12500), the city is providing enough money to care for and house 7.5 animals per year. Maybe the city should consider building and staffing their own animal shelter for $12,500 dollars per year. One employee making minimum wage would earn $12,500 in 43 weeks. If everyone in the county could see the extraordinary effort the staff and volunteer's make to save these animals from uthanization, very few would be critical of the effort.

-- Posted by ucantbserious on Fri, Jan 2, 2009, at 8:23 AM

I have only 1 time had trouble with the humane shelter taking an animal but was told they were at capicty(sorry dont spell well)& all there fosters were full. That was a cat. But I live in the country people drop animals off here all the time.Lucky i can usually find someone wanting a puppy or kitten. Because my husband and I dont agree on how many animals I need. I would like to save them all but it gets expensive.I think fundraisers would be great.I dont think there is an easy answer in these times with money tight.But also i think to gete everyone to pay there pets fees ( lic/rabies) would cost a lot more to have someone to police.

-- Posted by kd323 on Fri, Jan 2, 2009, at 9:24 AM


Thank God the police and fire come when I call them! The shelter doesn't do the same!

-- Posted by sassypants on Fri, Jan 2, 2009, at 9:32 AM

Hey Thoughtful I SHOULD OF BEEN MORE PRECISE AND SAID MEDICAL RUNS! I you listen to a scanner all day like I do then you would know Search and Rescue "A VOLUNTEER SERVICE" DOES ALL THE MEDICAL RUNS, at which time if it is Great Dane or the towers then they are toned out........

-- Posted by ccc on Fri, Jan 2, 2009, at 9:39 AM

I must agree with Criminology08 observation. The City of Brazil is still Clay County. Why should the citizens there be taxed twice for the same service? But, there is also the precedent that the city citizens also support the county sheriff's department while recieving no service within the city limits.

I don't really like contracting government services of these types because, as was noted in the article, accounting and accountibility facts and figures are hard to come by.

-- Posted by FlyinLion on Fri, Jan 2, 2009, at 9:49 AM


You need to get your facts first. The City Fire Department does not handle Medical Runs. The last I knew the County & City Taxpayers pay for a Private Ambulance service to handle medical runs. There shouldn't be any Fire Department or Search & Rescue agency making these runs, unless the Private Ambulance Service is paying a fee to those Departments to compensate them, which they do not. Think about this, your tax dollars are paying for the Ambulance and you also get a bill from them when you use the service, but when you call a Fire Department or Search & Rescue, that you also pay Taxes for, you don't receive a Bill

If you want the City Fire Department to run medical runs check on what it would cost city taxpayers to get the local Department certified to run medical and hire the manpower to cover these types of services.

What does this have to do with the Humane shelter anyway?

-- Posted by agar on Fri, Jan 2, 2009, at 10:18 AM


question,...where did you take the cats?


suggestion,...fix the window.

-- Posted by kmpd61 on Fri, Jan 2, 2009, at 10:22 AM

The only tax dollars that ccc cares about are the ones that he/she recieves at the first of the month. I also have a scanner but rarely have time to listen to it since i work everyday. Maybe when i retire i will have time to listen to my scanner all day too.

-- Posted by scared4kids on Fri, Jan 2, 2009, at 10:40 AM

$4.50 sounds like alot to care for one animal. There is no way it is for just dog food! What else is calculated into that $4.50?

Also I had an issue with a stray dog that bit one of my children. We live out of city limits. We called the shelter and a man did come out, but would not do anything so we had to call the sheriff dept who did come out and had to shoot the dog. This did happen a couple years ago, but still the county is not getting much service from the shelter either.

I think if the shelter board wants support from the city and county, put more information in the paper telling what the funds are used for. Right now it doesn't seem like we get what we pay for.

-- Posted by knightmom on Fri, Jan 2, 2009, at 11:24 AM


I will call my 12 year old and have her get right on that window! Thanks for the advice!

Now tell me what to do about the cat that is trying to run in my house very time I open the door? Would you like it at your house?

-- Posted by sassypants on Fri, Jan 2, 2009, at 11:31 AM

Brazil City Fire Department, like Clay County Search and Rescue and all of the volunteer fire departments in the county and first responders, ASSIST Transcare on almost every medical run they are dispatched to.

I'm not a scanner hopper, but I know so many in the area that are and have been in their houses listening to the madness.

If people only knew what went on, I think they would be shocked.

-- Posted by Cy on Fri, Jan 2, 2009, at 2:06 PM

The Humane shelter is hurting for money but, when our church was setting out collection buckets around town a pizza place that we went to said not to be like the humane shelter and never come back and empty it. Maybe they would do a little better if they got the money from ALL the collection bens around town

-- Posted by ponyrider on Fri, Jan 2, 2009, at 2:22 PM

We do not get the services from the Humane Shelter when they get the money they want anyhow! I called them for a dog in the neighborhood and they told me if I could catch it they would take it. I had to catch it and take it to them!!! What is wrong with this picture?

-- Posted by concernedcitizen1 on Fri, Jan 2, 2009, at 2:48 PM


I am lucky enough to have family members that live in the country that were willing to take the cats.

-- Posted by Criminology08 on Fri, Jan 2, 2009, at 2:49 PM

The CCHS has been doing the best they can with what they have.The cost of 1 dog is much more then the food they eat. Think about it people!! They heartworm test,give pravo shots,kennel cough spray and if necessary they pravo test.This is not counting the cost of the general running of the place, electic,phone so you can call,heating and cooling and employees to pay to feed the animals and also clean.There is also the cost of gas to pick up all this animals.They also transport the animals to other states to be adopt because we have so many disposable animals in this co.and city.If more people took better care of their animals then all this would not be a problem.

-- Posted by snowcritters on Fri, Jan 2, 2009, at 5:31 PM

This is a very sad situation. Please spay and neuter your pets. Please care for them as you would your children. They are NOT expendable. They are NOT unimportant. 12500.00 is nothing! That is not going to pay one salary. Or pay the utilities at the shelter. I hope that there are some caring townspeople that will donate to help this very needed service.

It is possible that Bloomington may be able to take some strays.

-- Posted by softcloth on Fri, Jan 2, 2009, at 5:58 PM

I'd like to know what other city departments were cut & by how much. We have German Shepherds & $4.50/day is on the low end of what it costs to take care of an animal properly. You add up their food, medical care,and grooming needs and it adds up quickly. Not to mention if they have a medical emergency. I don't understand, however, why the Humane Society won't accept the 12,500.00 unless they are afraid they would get locked into this amount.

-- Posted by th1953 on Fri, Jan 2, 2009, at 7:22 PM

Talk about cutting off your hand in spite of yourself!

I understand they wanted the $25,000, but geesh, all our pocket books are taking hits right now!

Wouldn't it be easier to take the $12,500 and try and raise the rest through public donations and grants, then to get all huffy and elitist and turn down the money because it isn't good enough.

Am I silly for thinking it might be easier to try and raise $12,500 than the WHOLE $25,000?

This is the type of mentality that needs to be adjusted!

Maybe its time someone poked their noses into the books of this organization and found out why $12,500 isn't good enough!

-- Posted by Cy on Fri, Jan 2, 2009, at 7:47 PM


Just a correction.. the CCSD does respond to city calls when needed. They often assist city officers.

-- Posted by ilovescrapbooking on Fri, Jan 2, 2009, at 8:54 PM

sassycat,i mean pants:

after your 12 year old child is done fixing the window,sit her down and explain to her that playing with the cat(and possibly feeding it)allows it to be comfortable enough,evidently,to crouch so close to the door that it"trys to run in your house every time you open your door."Get real, that does'nt happen and you know it.And as far as "how would i like it,"I would'nt know because I'd be to busy fixing my window rather than getting all buddied up to a stray cat.

-- Posted by kmpd61 on Sat, Jan 3, 2009, at 11:30 AM

I am really going out on a limb here and in fact am still recovering from what me & my family went through almost a year ago starting in April 08.

I am a current member of the CCHS now and a foster home for them. One of my personal problems is however, that despite all my knowledge and hard work, noone still seems to listen to me. Nevertheless, just for this one time here as it seems to be needed (hopefully), I do have something to say here. I have sent a few letters to the editor, so hopefully people will know where I am coming from and understand how I speak now.

I am once again stressing to everyone that knowledge is power. There are many different ways to try to obtain funds as previously stated in these comments: "try 5k fundraisers and other events to raise funds....lots of people see the welfare of animals to be a worthy cause.perhaps,taking this sad story and looking to non-government avenues of resource may help the humane society ...talk to the wabash valley roadrunning club ...solutions exist." And they do.

I aggree completely. In addition, the Clay County Humane Society is, as well, established as I understand it (so please someone correct me if I am wrong) as a non-profit entity 501(c)(3) status which can mean that they are eligible for many different resources and possible grants.

There is one leading cat advocate that I am particularly close with and rely on for research and information and this entity is named Alley Cat Allies who are based out of this nations capital, Washington D.C.. http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Pag...

One in particular article they have placed this past year which comes out of my mind right now, is one titled Lives Count, Secrets Kill Campaign, which I have printed and submitted to the CCHS a few months ago at one of the member's meetings. That is to say, of course, when they were under different management as they are now. But here it is once again if anyone would like to know: "Animal pounds and shelters kill more cats entrusted to their custody than they save. But the killing usually happens in secret, away from the public eye. While some facilities keep track of their own numbers, few ever reveal them to the government, let alone the public.

As part of the Lives Count, Secrets Kill Campaign, Alley Cat Allies is urging state governments to pass laws requiring these facilities to keep track of every cat they take into custody--and to report to the public each and every fatality.

Citizens nationwide deserve to know the real fates of animals inside pounds and shelters. It's time to bring the facts into the light--and stop the killing once and for all."

I also know from personal past experience, that this state of Indiana leaves small local government entities alone to establish on their own. We could though follow neighboring counties and/or cities ways and ideals and maybe even one day be as one here that someone could possibly want to follow one day. I guess now I am being an eternal optimist and one who never gives up.

I truely believe that to be part of a solution, it does not do anyone any good to point finger's, place blame or look into the past. We as a society however, can work together as one, glance at the past as a learning curve, empower ourselves with priceless knowledge, possibly look at other local cities (i.e. Vanderburgh County Animal Care & Control) as examples, which as well, please keep in mind that other local entities even are always more than likely to give - for free - suggestions, advice, etc..,.

If EVERYONE could please work toward a solution, perhaps, just maybe one day, this city/county would be a place I know in my heart which I would be proud to say I live.

Just a thought...

-- Posted by catlady on Sat, Jan 3, 2009, at 11:36 AM


Sure you do.Nice try but I dont think we believe you.The (no....)sounds like a "gunny sack thrown in the river" type of person

-- Posted by kmpd61 on Sat, Jan 3, 2009, at 11:38 AM

Catlady said that knowledge is power...How very true. Having a pet is taking on a responsibility, just short of like when one has a child. I hate to compare the two as we are talking animal and human here but each is a life. Though some who have children are also ignorant of the magnitude of the responsibility of parenthood, many who get a pet are just as ignorant of the responsibilities of pet ownership.

The fact is if we who have pets are not willing to pay what it costs to care for them and be responsible for what they do [damage in addition to making other unwanted animals], it's going to cost everyone more and as a community some are not able or willing to spend money on them.

The public also has to remember that those who work at the Humane Society are not dog officers so they have no authority when it comes to loose dogs and other livestock. Until our county hires a "dog catcher", we must put that responsibility on top of all the others our law enforcement carry. That is why the separation between county and city human society costs. It would seem that the human society has to respond more to the calls of city officers where dogs/cats are concerned than to the county officers [as I said, some in county take care of roaming animals on their own, like it or not. Loose dogs do far more damage to livestock and property than do coyotes. Feral young cats spread toxoplasmosis in livestock feeds and cause abortions in valuable livestock. Sometimes one can't catch or trap the animals so to protect their property, some are shot. Not pretty but necessary sometimes]. That is likely the main reson for a difference in county and city expenses at human shelter.

Choices as I see it:

1] Make pet ownership require a yearly license fee that is high enough to make it worthwhile to send reminders and go after if they fail to pay. Make fines for not licensing or immunizing pet sting enough to make people get licenses to avoid the fine. Make the un neutered license fee high enough that one would end up paying what it would cost to surgically neuter the pet within a couple of years so more would get neutered. On top of that, each animal brought into the shelter as a stray could not be picked up until a fine for letting it be loose is paid. Further enforcing the STATE law already on the books.

2]Raise city and county taxes so landowners [and renters as cost will be passed to them as well in higher rental costs] carry more of the cost associated with irresponsible pet ownership.

3] Realize that there are many un adoptable animals taken to the shelter and that more animals will have to be euthanized due to people's irresponsible behavior as the shelter cannot afford to keep so many for so long a time period.

Everything costs more now. A bag of feed that cost $7 a year ago is now $13...Not to mention immunizations, cleaning supplies, record keeping time due to regulations. I am an animal lover. I am a licensed/registered veterinary technician. I have two neutered dogs and two neutered cats. The cats were adopted as adults from someone who fostered them for a shelter.

When we moved here from Virginia 14 years ago I was paying $8 per neutered dog for a license. Here it was $2. A joke. We should be up around $10-15 now at least to meet shelter and leash law costs. Higher for intact animals. Nothing is free. It's time those who chose to have pets started paying for it. Don't tell me that someone can't afford it. It's a matter of choices. Choose the six pack, choose the cigarettes, choose the cable tv. IF you don't choose the pet, you shouldn't have to pay for it. If you have a pet and CHOOSE not to care for it any longer YOU find a home for it and if it's not adoptable, CHOOSE to pay for it to be euthanized at your vet's so it doesn't cause others to pay for it. I know it's hard line but I have seen damage stray dogs can do and also seen them starve to death. They cannot live on their own in the woods. That's a fairy tale for those who dump animals and a nightmare for the dumped animal and those it is dumped upon.

Better to be euthanized than to go through that suffering and anxiety. Better yet, neuter the animal so we don't have so many who are not wanted.

-- Posted by Jenny Moore on Sat, Jan 3, 2009, at 2:44 PM


You should really work on your punctuation which is usually taught in elementary. Also maybe your spelling if you can. Also, possibility of maybe your grammar skills. However, I will not hold you against that. I just enjoy reading intelligent comments.

Thanks for accusing me for dropping cats in a river. That shows how intelligent you are. I love cats and dogs actually.

These comments are great if they are intelligent and stay in those lines. Such as Jenny Moore, I love reading her comments because you can tell she is intelligent. Many of you have intelligent comments that I enjoy reading. Thanks! I can't wait to see how the city of Brazil deals with this issue. If it were me, I would look at other options rather than the Humane Shelter. Are the books to the Humane Shelter open to the public to see where all their funding has gone?

-- Posted by Criminology08 on Sun, Jan 4, 2009, at 12:36 PM

Usually I agree with Jenny Moore, but this time I have some reservations to her solutions. I do understand that responsible pet owners should care for and spay or neuter their pets; but, if we impose all the fees you suggest then most people would'nt own dogs or cats. I personally would love to adopt another animal from the Humane Shelter but don't want the additional expense of the adoption costs. I could almost buy a pedigreed animal for less. If we fine or fee too much no one will "legally" own pets and then the abandoned rate would be even greater.

I assume that the Humane Shelter won't accept the lower amount from the city because then they would be contractually obligated to service the city.

-- Posted by Icareaboutbrazil on Mon, Jan 5, 2009, at 9:17 AM

Rick Moore is the best manager I have seen in his job capacity. If he says you cant take care of animals due to the lack of funds, I believe him. He needs more money? Give it to him. Where I grew up in the east, we had the spca, a team of people who find lost and neglected or sick animals and a shelter for those who wish to adopt stray pets. It was well funded because the people decided they needed the service. In this part of the country,the people WANT the service, but they dont want to PAY for it. Isn't that how we got to this place? Where we create agencies in the first place to care for the unwanted? I think so. So if have pets you dont want anymore, or kids you dont want to protect and feed, you tell me. What do you want to do? Blame the people at the shelter for the need? Blame the child welfare services or any other organization that just cant squeeze blood out of a turnip? Come on, use your common sense. Give them what they need. What a crazy place.

-- Posted by Pearl2083 on Mon, Jan 5, 2009, at 10:49 AM

-- Posted by Icareaboutbrazil on Mon, Jan 5, 2009, at 1:24 PM


This wasn't a matter of the city not wanting to pay the humane society. They made an offer with what they could and the humane society turned it down. I'd have to agree with the mayor because if they need funding so badly then why turn down a chance at some funding. a little is better than nothing.

-- Posted by axegrinder1313 on Mon, Jan 5, 2009, at 2:46 PM

-- Posted by Icareaboutbrazil on Tue, Jan 6, 2009, at 6:32 AM

Two things...

I am not privy to WHY Humane Society turned down contract offer but could it be that the additional responsibility to care for and pick up animals requested by city employees [like police and city workers]would cause more expense than the amount of money offered? That way the funding would be canceled out and they would be better off being allowed to refuse the city's requests to house animals without donation they require from those who bring in animals as individuals.

Second thing...icareaboutbrazil MAY have misunderstood some of my statements as I was partially playing devils' advocate. I was not saying that one suggestion should be wholely adopted, eliminating the others, but the money has to come from somewhere and it either has to come from those who have animals or those who do not or a combination of both as money isn't going to come from the sky. How we want the responsibility distributed is something we may want to voice to our officials as we cannot ignore the situation or it will worsen. Many times veterinarians are thought to be only wanting to make money by the promotion of neutering your pets but the cost of the procedure is almost as much as the charge due to staffing, instrument care, and drug costs. Never mind liability. Most vets try to keep neutering costs low in order to entice new long term clients. When you look at long term health care cost of caring for an un neutered pet, it's a bargain. It's just that so few people realize that there will be so many costs prevented by that early investment, not even including puppy care, but infections of the reproductive organs, fight wounds, and liability when hormones take them wandering from home.

Maybe the answer is to tax EVERYONE to pay for mandatory neutering of ALL pets who live in the county? Too radical? It would surely solve a lot of the problems. No matter how you think it should be handled, let your officials know so a more long term solution can be had.

-- Posted by Jenny Moore on Tue, Jan 6, 2009, at 6:53 AM


Your remarks grow more ridiculous with every post. My daughter has fixed the window (LOL) and now the cat is camped out on the front porch and runs in every time we open the door. We are not feeding the cat nor are we going to be abusive to this poor homeless creature. Now if this was a dog doing this, the shelter would have picked him up.

I assume as you keep posting your vast knowledge, you will let me know I can handle this as well.

-- Posted by sassypants on Tue, Jan 6, 2009, at 10:34 AM


If you can find someone to borrow a live cage trap from, you might bait it and get cat to go into it...Of course you might also draw more animals to your doorstep with it!!!

I know they sell them at Rural King but they are quite pricey for one time usage.

I think human society has them and they might lend one to you for trapping strays. I know they offered to set one out here when I had a dog that kept coming over to bother our animals.

-- Posted by Jenny Moore on Tue, Jan 6, 2009, at 4:43 PM


Thank you for the help. I have thought of doing this with a borrowed cage but have been told, not by the shelter but others, that if I take the cat to them, I will have to pay to leave it. I do not feel I should have to pay for doing this.

-- Posted by sassypants on Wed, Jan 7, 2009, at 9:07 AM

-- Posted by Icareaboutbrazil on Wed, Jan 7, 2009, at 1:08 PM

Disgruntled Are you saying that people who live in the county pay for city employees salarys?

-- Posted by scared4kids on Fri, Jan 9, 2009, at 1:17 PM

I can understand why the City has chosen to offer a lesser amount. I can also understand why the Society has decided not to accept. Its over for now. The City appears to have found a new service provider. I am not fully able to make an educated comparison between these two organizations as to which one is the right choice for the City. It looks like the City is deciding to pay a different organization for this animal service as an enhancement to the county service they are already provided through the Clay County Humane Society.... Or are we as citizens of the City on an island? Is the CCHS telling me that eventhough I live in the county and pay county taxes, that are distributed in some form to their organization, that I am going to be denied their service when needed? Because I live on the island of Brazil? Those aren't bodies of water they're just leaks.

I don't understand why anyone would think that people living outside the city limits would be paying for city services or the Mayors salary. It doesn't make much sense. They wouldn't even be able to vote for a Mayor during elections. If someone asks me what county I live in I don't reply, "Brazil". I live in Clay County, but will I get the services I pay county taxes for?

-- Posted by spiritof56 on Fri, Jan 9, 2009, at 2:31 PM


Hypothetical: What if the City Police department were eliminated. Wouldn't the Shefiff then be responsible to insure law and order were maintained in this highly populated area of the county? It may not receive the same urgency as it did when it were policed by its own agency, but it wouldn't be without law enforcement.

-- Posted by spiritof56 on Mon, Jan 12, 2009, at 5:41 AM

Hypothetically, what if the County Police were eliminated, would the Indiana State Police take over. Hypothetically, what if they did away with the state government and the federal government just decided to take over. Hypothetically, what if the local government was hurting in the money department and they couldn't offer the Humane Society as much money as they have in the past.

I was at the Humane Society meeting last night and I saw no financial report. I would like to see the City work with the Humane Shelter, but I don't see it happening with the current board.

-- Posted by Criminology08 on Tue, Jan 13, 2009, at 9:41 AM


I see your point in some ways. I believe the contract between the City and Humane Society should be reviewed closely by both sides. I have no inside knowledge of what the exact legally binding wording is. I'm sure that both sides have had an opinion of what is expected from the service contract. I hope that they both examined this contract closely and made their respective decisions based in the knowledge gained. The true division between the City and Humane society rests specifically on the subject of the quality of service provided, and its value. What you are saying is that the Humane Society would have difficulty in determining how to lower its services to the City based on the offer. It would be an odd situation. Something would have to be cut. A business will eventually fail if it keeps providing the same service for less money. You get what you pay for essentially. On the other hand it appears that the side providing payment for services does not feel that they have been getting their moneys worth for some time. Here lies the disagreement. There has to be some factual information to uphold either sides of this argument and a beginning point to the difference. Why does the City feel they havent been getting $25,000 worth of service and how did they determine the offer that was discussed.

Here is a different point though, when the County contracts for this service is there any stipulation that they are not contracting for the area of the County within the City limits? If the County wide service will be maintained by the CCHS, why is the City being completely denied this portion of their county service.

Of Course CCHS has been offended by the lesser offer, and they shouldn't be held accoutable to the same standard that they have been providing to the City, but this group doesn't contract with other separate entities, such as Clay City, Harmony, Staunton...etc. Much like they do not contract with Brazil now. What is the difference in these scenarios.

It seems that Brazil was paying for additional service. Above and beyond what other areas of the County were getting and paying for. This has ended with the CCHS, but the entire service has not because of the County obligation.

The really difficult part for these groups is this is more than contracts, and business management, politics and fundability. Its about the proper concern for the humane treatment to animals. Of course these groups realize this, but it is often overshadowed by their disagreements.

-- Posted by spiritof56 on Tue, Jan 13, 2009, at 11:45 PM


Sounds to me like the mayor has her priorities straight. She must know what a bad deal and ill business is. The humane society had no financial records or statement at their recent meeting. Also, I think that Clerk/Treasurer Karen Mcqueen is doing a great job at straighting out the finances of the city.

-- Posted by Criminology08 on Wed, Jan 14, 2009, at 2:06 PM

I feel like I'm at a "Rocky Horror Picture Show" party .. "Criminology", "JennyMoore", "Sassypants" .. "Brad", "Janet" .. "Dr Scott!" ; )

Great read .. sometimes off topic .. but great read nonethelss. Crim, Cy and Sassy are among my favs. Thanks, guys (gals)!!

-- Posted by Emmes on Thu, Jan 15, 2009, at 1:28 PM


I believe what your saying is that Knightsville and Harmony and similar incorporated towns are not covered by the CCHS county wide service. If that is true, what do these areas do for abandoned and sick animals. Who do they call?

-- Posted by spiritof56 on Thu, Jan 15, 2009, at 1:45 PM

After the towns provided their bleak financial outlook and advised they couldn't pay anything for the service, would you say that services provided to these areas by the CCHS stayed the same, decreased, or completely stopped?

-- Posted by spiritof56 on Fri, Jan 16, 2009, at 7:24 AM

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