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UPDATE: Additional information released on U.S. 40 accident

Wednesday, December 2, 2009

KNIGHTSVILLE -- A single vehicle accident resulted in a fatality on United States 40 near Knightsville Wednesday morning.

At approximately 4 a.m., emergency officials were dispatched to an area on U.S. 40 between Knightsville and Harmony.

The vehicle came to a rest in front of the home of Kenneth Stewart.

Stewart told The Brazil Times he did not witness the accident, but his family was woken by the sound of the crash.

"We heard a crash," he said. "I looked outside and saw a car by a tree."

The driver of the vehicle, Bradley Carli, 45, Indianapolis, was pronounced dead at the scene by officials with the Clay County Coroner's Office.

Clay County Sheriff's Department Dep. Eric Walker told The Brazil Times CCSD had received phone calls from the Putnam County Sheriff's Department notifying of a vehicle traveling westbound on U.S. 40 in the eastbound lanes at a high rate of speed through Putnam County.

According to Walker, he and two other CCSD deputies arrived at the scene of the accident just moments after it took place.

"We were basically on scene right after it happened," he said.

Walker said it is believed the vehicle left the roadway and smashed into to telephone poles before striking a tree in front of the Stewart home.

The accident temporarily shut down traffic flow on U.S. 40, but by 8 a.m., one lane of U.S. 40 was still closed, but cleaning crews were cleaning up the area.


Comments
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My family lives a few houses from the accident site and the police departments should do a better job of directing traffic than just putting up signs in Harmony and at the Knightsville Flashing lights. Drivers should not have to turn around in peoples drives because the police can't do their jobs correctly. Was it too cold for the police to stand out and direct traffic? I feel sorry for the taxpayers of Clay County because of the poor service they receive from the police and sheriff departments.

It is the same problem time and time again when I-70 is closed and traffic is diverted onto US 40 and the residents can't even get out of their driveways because of the congested traffic. Where are the reserve officers, etc.?

I pray for the victims family.

-- Posted by bluedevil82 on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 9:49 AM

The whole situation is sad, the fact that a life is lost hardly leaves me thinking of traffic conditions......

-- Posted by en1122 on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 10:13 AM

agreed

-- Posted by sassypants on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 11:15 AM

"Drivers should not have to turn around in peoples drives because the police can't do their jobs correctly. Was it too cold for the police to stand out and direct traffic? I feel sorry for the taxpayers of Clay County because of the poor service they receive from the police and sheriff departments."

How selfish bluedevil82...I was there assisting in the rescue attempt. EVERYONE...(including the 4 county police officers on scene)...was busy with tools or a piece of the car in hand trying to remove a life "hanging in the balance" >>>When they should have been directing traffic for YOU! Not one person was standing around with nothing to do but direct traffic for YOU!

And freedom1...if more people would drive like they have some sense...traffic direction at these types of scenes would take care of themselves...Oh but wait, our schedules are more imortant that other peoples lives.

Thank you to the MANY volunteers and workers who worked diligently to save a life. Your work doesn't go unnoticed.

-- Posted by flycatcher on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 11:54 AM

when will people stop blaming the police? if you can do a better job, get an app. from city hall.I don't think there is a line.

-- Posted by Sand mann on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 12:01 PM

Thank you to all the VOLUNTEERS who sacrifice sleep, work, family time and even death to help those who have no respect for life and property. Great job everyone who helped.

Many hands make a job lighter.

Many complaints only make it heavier.

-- Posted by MarciaMSPT on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 12:19 PM

I hope my biggest problem in life is someone turning around in my driveway. If it is, I have a blessed life.

-- Posted by Gunslinger on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 1:33 PM

My sincere regrets for the family of the man who lost his life, And what a selfish, self absorbed group of people this small town must have. Did the police in clay county not stand out in the cold and try to get this man out of the car! Yes they did, was it too cold! No it was not, never. but omg did this inconvience some people so sorry, a life is endangered, and the police spent their time and energy on the person injured. I salute the police and emergency personnel, i can only hope if it was me or my family they would put us first and not worry about you being late for work!!!! God bless you all for a fine job done.

-- Posted by mamawpam on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 2:13 PM

Lack of traffic direction is a valid point that can have far reaching effects. Several people are caught up in the commotion involved with traffic accidents and fail to do the reasonable thing which is to move on, instead of sitting there watching. We have all experienced this fascination. It's not at all that we don't appreciate the emergency responders or value human life. Simply put, what good does it do to jam up the roads with gawkers? Also, many people are required to be at work or they assess points which can lead to termination of employment. Even if you have "spare" points, you never know what the future will bring...bad weather, deer, more accidents? If I lost my job, my family would be homeless. Our house would go into foreclosure. How good will that be for the community or my neighbors. I worry all the time that my job will be phased out without having to worry about getting caught in traffic backed up due to an accident. Not everyone is out pleasure driving or has the freedom to show up to work whenever. Yes, traffic direction or the lack thereof, is important to many people even if they don't make the connection.

-- Posted by My opinion counts on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 2:27 PM

Yes, Clay County has a bunch of self absorbed people. If they were intelligent, they would have had the news on this morning or had been listening to the radio when they announced that HWY 40 was closed between Knightsville Road and Harmony Road and they would have known to avoid that area altogether.

-- Posted by clgruener on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 3:26 PM

Hats off to all those who were out working the wreck. My prayers for the family of the man that lost his life. For the others leave early if your that worried I do. Also get out of bed a move your car to the end of your drive so people cant turn around there or was it to cold.

-- Posted by confused33 on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 3:39 PM

Yes, Thank you to all who helped this morning! God bless you and your families.

I can tell from some of these posts who might be volunteers for our various services we have in our county but "bluedevil82" you are not one of them and that's OK. While the EMS/Police/Rescue services people were there did you make any attempt to ask them if you could help out in any way? Like maybe get an approved reflective vest on, commit to a couple of hours of unselfishness and try to help your community and it's commuters stay a little bit safer? I think not.......but that's OK too. Maybe sometime you can take the time out of your day and perhaps make a ride-along with one of the law enforcement agencies or perhaps do one with a volunteer rescue agency and see first hand just exactly the kind of controlled chaos that occurs in the time of a horrendous accident. Maybe more people should learn how to assist our local agencies with something as complicated as traffic control. I would surely want you to be trained so you, in your eagerness to help, don't create an equally dangerous situation. Most of you folks have no idea how complicated accidents scenes really are. There is so much to contend with, not just your own safety but the scene itself poses it own threats too, in addition to other traffic and the rubber-neckers!

Flycatcher has a great point...if people would take the responsibility to drive safely and watch out for each other, then in situations like this it might not be so dangerous. That's how it would be in the perfect world. Oh yea, this is far from perfect isn't it. May I make a suggestion? Thank you....go join a rescue agency, get up at 0400 when the tones drop and it's cold, rainy and really crappy out, crawl out from your nice warm bed, kiss your better half, look in your kids' room as you walk by and hope for the best when you get on-scene. That's what these folks do, they do it to help, they do it because they want to, they don't do it for money, they do it to HELP people. This is the best bunch of people you will ever meet, people who help others in the time of greatest need because they want to and it's the right thing to do.

Have a great day and Merry Christmas.

-- Posted by Proud of My Country on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 4:01 PM

Great job to all of the volunteers.

Now on to the people who think that the Clay County sheriff's department and the volunteers are to self involved to be out in the cold to direct traffic. There are only so many of these officers on duty and volunteers don't just put their lives on hold waiting on accidents to happen so they can go to an accident scene. Reserve officers have jobs just like the average citizen so they can't just stop what they are doing because of an accident. If there were signs posted in Knightsville and in Harmony at a reasonable distance from the scene of the accident then what is the actual problem...are most drivers incapable of reading a sign and doing what it states? My mother has to drive right through there every morning on her way to work, where if she is late she gets a point against her and yet she was able to read the sign make the route change and still be on time to work. Maybe the problem here is that people wait to long to leave for work and don't take into consideration that there could be a problem whether it be a traffic accident or just a flat tire that could make them late.

Lets not forget that these volunteer personnel were trying to save a life and as of this time I have yet to read anything that has said what may have lead to the chase in the first place so no one knows why this person was driving at a high rate of speed or running from the Putnam County sheriff. Though I can't personally think of anything that could justify a high rate of speed in any lane of traffic let alone the on coming traffic.

I personally am just very please that there was only one death as a result of this chase and that the biggest complaint anyone has about this deal is that they didn't have anyone directing traffic. It seems like a pretty minuet problem in the scheme of things.

-- Posted by Brazilmom on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 4:26 PM

I agree with proud of my country and brazilmom.

Before you criticize police/fire/ems crews take some time to put yourself in their shoes.

The average firefighter (paid or volunteer it doesn't matter because the standard is the same across the nation) goes through approx. 500 hours of training to receive certification as a Firefighter II, this doesn't include roughly another 500 hours (classroom and practical hands on time) to get certified as a Basic EMT, not to mention time to learn vehicle extrication and other important life saving skills.

Paramedics go through approx. 24 months of training to do their job.

Police officers go through 16 weeks of the academy just to get their basic Law Enforcement certification, not to mention all the follow on training.

10 fire departments in the county are volunteer, which means we go through all the training and don't get paid for it. We do the job simply because we have identified the need and we care about what happens in our community. This also rings true for our reserve deputies and reserve city police officers. All of us have other careers and family. It's not an easy thing to just drop everything and go, not to mention many employers simply can't allow those who volunteer to just leave work to assist.

I understand it's easy to point fingers and say "they don't know how to do their jobs" but please give emergency responders just a little slack. We have things that must be accomplished on scene, and while traffic control is on that list it is a lower priority than ensuring the patient receives our full attention and abilities to save them. even though you might be inconvenienced by having to find an alternate route or get stuck in traffic.

Imagine yourself in the shoes of the patient stuck in the vehicle, wouldn't you want us to give you that 100% that we give them?

Sorry for the rant and length of this post.

-- Posted by Localguy1972 on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 5:37 PM

"My opinion counts"...No one stated traffic direction is not important. There were a handful of rescue workers there this morning and EVERYONE of them was busy trying to save a life. I think bluedevil82, freedom1, and My opinion counts (and anyone who is thinking like them) should put their names and telephone numbers on the list to help with traffic assistance in these times. When law enforcement officers take a pledge, and firefighters volunteer, they do so to protect life and property. Traffic assistance is important, HOWEVER, when you prioritize with the workers you have, you always use the manpower to complete the most important tasks first. As we received more help this morning, we did have traffic direction. Oh yeah, and as for slamming our fine city and county police...Where were the men in blue (state police) who are paid to patrol our state highways?

-- Posted by flycatcher on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 5:40 PM

For all of you that have nothing better to do than complain about the Police not directing traffic on US 40 this morning, let me ask you a question?

IF YOUR CHILD, PARENT OR SPOUSE WERE IN A SERIOUS ACCIDENT, WOULD YOU WANT THE POLICE OFFICERS DIRECTING TRAFFIC OR DOING ALL THEY COULD TO SAVE YOUR LOVED ONE??? EXACTLY-

For God sake-think of the victim and his family instead of your self, so you were a little inconvenienced this morning, atleast your alive.

To the all of the Police Officers, EMT's and Firefighters-thanks for all you do. I travel US 40 to work every morning and have no complaints at all-not even this morning :)

-- Posted by dbltrbl on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 5:40 PM

IF YOUR CHILD, PARENT OR SPOUSE WERE IN A SERIOUS ACCIDENT, WOULD YOU WANT THE POLICE OFFICERS DIRECTING TRAFFIC OR DOING ALL THEY COULD TO SAVE YOUR LOVED ONE??? EXACTLY- Thank you dbltrbl

Nobody needs my number if I see they need help I will stop and be late for work if that is what it takes. (pepper)

-- Posted by pepper1 on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 5:53 PM

QUOTE: "when will people stop blaming the police? if you can do a better job, get an app. from city hall.I don't think there is a line."

That response is a little old and has no merit.

Has McDonalds ever messed up your order? I'm sure you thought you could do a better job, and I'd also bet you didn't put your application in.

-- Posted by I. M. Lee Thall, Esq. on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 5:53 PM

I think the more important problem here is that there has been 3 wrecks in about 3 weeks within a quarter mile. If anything has to do with the police it is that they need to be patrolling that area more.

-- Posted by coe7273 on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 6:03 PM

We travel through Brazil on this stretch of U.S.40 from time to time and when you come upon this area, people keep passing you like you are sitting still. I am going the speed limit of 45 MPH. I am wondering how fast the other individual is traveling? Some seem like they are going to a fire or have an emergency. Why doesn't the police traffic this area with radar to slow some of these idiots down? Maybe if the people that travel so fast won't be so apt to go this fast when the judge hits them with a sizeable traffic fine.

-- Posted by sewinglady1941 on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 6:42 PM

Have people always been so stupid, or is just more obvious now that they can broadcast their opinions, come turn around in my drive small inconvienance compared to loss of life.

-- Posted by Ombudsman on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 7:16 PM

Lee Thall ,

i understand that the comment is old but it still holds True to this day and age. you all complain about the police but you refuse to apply. you monday morning quartback without a Clue.

Yes people at McDonalds have messed up orders but I only hope You slow down amd place all the hamburgers and FF in the bag before you give them to me through the window. butif you don't I know it's not life threating. I will forgive you and won't talk ill of you.

-- Posted by Sand mann on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 8:02 PM

Sand mann, do try to get it correct.

Since you say that I have complained about the police and Monday morning quarterbacked their actions, I'm sure you won't mind quoting where I said anything negative about the police.

Before you criticize anyone, you should at least try to be accurate. For that matter, you didn't even get the McDonalds statement correct.

-- Posted by I. M. Lee Thall, Esq. on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 8:33 PM

Wow Anarchy, nice language. From your post you indicate that you are an emergency responder?

-- Posted by I. M. Lee Thall, Esq. on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 8:41 PM

Lee Thall

What gave you a clue oh wise one.

-- Posted by Anarchy on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 9:04 PM

First off, I would like to say great job by all responding personnel. This was a tragic accident that happened at a bad time. Also, to the family of the deceased, you have my deepest condolences.

As for the people complaining about the traffic, if there is an accident and we need to turn people around in your driveway, well we are going to. If that is what it takes to keep my fellow firefighters and law enforcement officers safe, then that is what is going to happen. As for anyone standing around, there was a short spell while we waited for the coroner to release the body. During this time law enforcement and rescue personnel were filling out reports, taking pictures and removing debris. Oh there was also the time we had to wait for them to remove the vehicle, and cut some power lines so we could get traffic moving again.

So for anyone else wanting to whine about traffic, I know many volunteer departments that are always taking applications. Feel free to stop by any one of them and fill one out if you feel you can do a better job. I personally challenge you to try it.

-- Posted by Thomas Morton on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 9:06 PM

LOL @ Anarchy.

Also, nicely put Localguy1972. I believe it is taught in Drivers Ed that if you roll up on an accident, you need to be in the farthest lane away, keep moving at a slower speed and keep your eyes on the road. If that isn't taught in Drivers Ed, then there is a piece of advise for you rubber neckers out there. Here is another neat idea, if the you see a bunch of red flashing lights and the vehicle in front of you is slowing down...odds are there has been an accident and traffic may be stopped. It doesn't take a genius to figure this out, just some common sense.

-- Posted by Thomas Morton on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 9:17 PM

Wow there are a lot of people in this small town who have no clue what its like to have to get up at 4 in the morning to go cut a body out of a car and then head off to their other job and continue their day. But if you want a clue then try doing it then lets see how much you complain about the emergency responders. To the guy who had someone turn around in his driveway, what was the big deal were you afraid that someones tire was going to steal a rock from you....You are pathetic and I just hope that one day its not you who needs help from the very people you are criticizing !!!!

I pray for the family who lost a loved one and the stupid people who don't have a clue... I commend the emergency responders and know I feel better just knowing that there are GOOD people who are willing to help at a time of need.. :)

-- Posted by TLLBK03 on Wed, Dec 2, 2009, at 9:32 PM

StockJock47,

First off, traffic could not be allowed to pass, because of down power lines. Second, If we allow traffic to pass it puts everyone in harms way. This accident was not confined to one lane. The problem with traffic re-direction is people tend to try and find other ways through. Everyone wants to blame the responders and law enforcement for their inconvenience, but if blame is needed then blame the driver who decided to drive in excess of 100 miles per hour. Had he been doing the speed limit, NONE of this would have happened.

I find it funny how everyone complains about being late to work for traffic, weather, and other excuses. The fact is, if you get to work on a daily basis with 5 minutes to spare, then you are setting yourself up for being late. Not to mention not having an alternate route already planned out.

Nobody is defending mediocrity, they are defending the people who get out of their warm beds and work in the cold to try and save a life. Because it is what we would hope others would do for us. We are constantly badgered for our performance as volunteers, but yet we still do it. It's what we do for FREE!

-- Posted by Thomas Morton on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 6:45 AM

StockJock47,

First off are you a first responder or do you even know anything about what their job is or what it consist of? I doubt it by the way you are responding here. Maybe if your such a knowledgeable person then you should be the one out there leading the other responders and getting things done as you so see as the right way. You should get some insight about what is actually going on and why traffic was not being permitted to drive past the accident scene(hello power lines). Maybe next time they should just ignore the dangers to all the people who might be late for work and allow them to drive on through, then when there are more people needing these same responders to save them ( possibly it being you) people like you might have a better understanding of why they do what they do...

Give credit where credit is due and that would be to all these people you want to complain about. (The emergency responders)!!!

-- Posted by TLLBK03 on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 7:52 AM

Oh and one more thing traffic was being controlled, it was being rerouted around the scene of the accident HINT: signs saying road closed !!!

-- Posted by TLLBK03 on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 7:58 AM

Wow! Everyone needs to step back and take a breath. This is a comment forum and everyone has one. People are supportive and appreciative of first responders, it is ludicrous to imply otherwise. Some are simply stating important issues that seem to be pushed aside in the argument of saving a life. Although there were signs stating the road was closed, there should have been an officer there making sure people complied. Many motorists spend more time trying to see what is happening than following the rules of the road. Surely we have all encountered this. That is the reason why officers are placed in the position of traffic control, to make sure motorist follow the rules. I work 15 miles from my house and leave 45 minutes before I am required to be at work. This is generally considered plenty of time for potential problems encountered while en route to work. However, I was nearly late for work and as a result would have been reprimanded via the point system. Although some comments have indicated that raising the issues of traffic and being late to work are unsupportive of our civil service, disrespectful of the deceased, or simply rants from people that should have had the good sense to leave earlier. I can assure you that is not the case; I realize some people cannot bring themselves to accept another's opinion or point of view, but we still have them.

-- Posted by My opinion counts on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 9:17 AM

As i type this with tears in my eyes, in Dec 2006 there was an accident on U.S. 40 that caused three lanes to be closed 1 east bound and 2 west bound, they were being diverted to north pine st. officer Clint McQueen advised me to step onto the sidewalk for my safety, just as i did a car came thru the the closed lane and continued down u.s. 40. Could they not see the smashed vehicles sitting in the roadway, and all emergency personnel, and volunteers there to help, i am sure they did maybe they were late for work and just didnt care. i dont like being around accidents now for what i seen that day, and what i have had to do to get back to some what of a normal life, and you people have to see it everytime you are called out..God bless you! I havent told them thank you....but i am now......THANK YOU!! we should all be thankful that this man did not take innocent lives with him. traffic control is a must during accidents, wether it be rerouted or just down to one lane, keep the people who are trying to help SAFE!

-- Posted by paper reader on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 9:36 AM

I was one of the motorists that was redirected due to this accident, and I in no way shape or form felt inconvinced by the emergency personnel doing their jobs. Heaven forbid it was you or your family, I'm sure the last thing on your mind would be traffic control. I have a great deal of respect and gratitude toward all those that helped with the unfornunate situation.

-- Posted by benna30 on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 11:02 AM

StockJock47,

I believe that really the only one who attacked Bluedevil82 would be anarchy. I don't believe my post or Tom Morton's comments would classify as a personal attack. I don't feel that the county employees are being narrow minded, but simply expressing in writing their frustration that so often goes unspoken.

And as far as Anarchy's comments I find them inappropriate for this forum, Anarchy I hate to say it, but comments like that are open invitation for attacks on the volunteers and shed us in a light that is less than professional.

Stockjock47 I do agree with part of what you are saying, no one should strive to be mediocre. But I will qualify that statement by saying that as far as I know, few of the emergency responders I work with fall in that category. If there is mediocrity in our profession it usually falls in the category of funding, we are asked to do more with less. Which causes severe shortfalls in how we can operate. The lack of funding is our biggest challenge. This is an area where the public can help, come to our stations, meet the Firefighters, see what we have. I guarantee that it is quite an eye opener once you see the cost in personal time and money that it takes to operate. Each year it gets more difficult, even though we are volunteers we must meet the same standards as our paid counterparts. We often do it with aging equipment (in the case of our department, some equipment that is almost 30 years old) because we simply don't have or can't raise the money to replace it. We have fundraisers and actively seek grants to assist, neither are we guaranteed to receive. But we still try.

We put in countless hours of training to be the best at what we do. Whether it is Law Enforcement or Fire/EMS we know that there will always be public opinion on how we perform our duties. As a volunteer I do give freely of what time I have, I know there is no financial gain in what I am doing. I personally do it for love of the community in which I grew up. When I am in my role as a Firefighter I take it very seriously and I have a commitment to present a professional image in all that I do. I know this is also true for many of the volunteers I work with.

If there is legitimate public concern on how we do our duties I would offer this advice to everyone, contact the chief's of the local agencies in writing or in person with your grievance. Make sure you put a face to the name and don't send anonymous comments that way the chief's will treat the concern with the appropriate respect. I know that all the chief's including myself are very approachable and welcome public input. From personal experience when someone comes to me about a concern with my department, I treat it very serious and if it is something that is under our control I make sure we improve on it. If it's something out of our control I try to point that person to the appropriate agency.

Having said that I understand why so many of the responders are making these comments. Public Service can often be a thankless job and we realize that. But it is still frustrating for many that people make negative comments towards us when we are out there working diligently to protect lives and property. We are doing a job very few can or will do. I will not condone unprofessional displays in public but I can sympathize with their feelings.

This is not an attack on anyone, I am merely making an attempt to shed some light on the view from our side. It is a view that few see, and I feel that the only way to get people to understand our view is to spend time with us and let us try to educate the public on the difficult tasks that we face.

Sorry for the length of this post, but I felt the need to put this out.

-- Posted by Localguy1972 on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 11:06 AM

Well said Localguy1972!

-- Posted by TylerWHutcheson on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 11:32 AM

Wow Anarchy, not only a mouth but a tough guy or gal to boot. I'm impressed!

-- Posted by I. M. Lee Thall, Esq. on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 12:00 PM

For the bluedevil comment, if you dislike where you live, (which happens to be a very busy main road), and what goes on then move. And I do have to say, I live near the area also and people do drive very fast! Slow down. But lets not forget that a person lost their life.

-- Posted by nurse92 on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 6:17 PM

In America, we can form our own opinions and state them publicly, observers can sometimes offer improvements that direct involvement can overlook, no one is perfect, not cops, not anyone, if we were we'd be up there looking down chuckling about the comment section and be able to not take it so personally.

-- Posted by Freeyourmind on Thu, Dec 3, 2009, at 8:56 PM

to sayitloud...(again)

I work 15 miles from my house and leave 45 minutes before I am required to be at work. This is generally considered plenty of time for potential problems encountered while en route to work. However, I was nearly late for work and as a result would have been reprimanded via the point system. Although some comments have indicated that raising the issues of traffic and being late to work are unsupportive of our civil service, disrespectful of the deceased, or simply rants from people that should have had the good sense to leave earlier. I can assure you that is not the case; I realize some people cannot bring themselves to accept another's opinion or point of view, but we still have them.

-- Posted by My opinion counts on Fri, Dec 4, 2009, at 8:27 AM


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