[The Brazil Times nameplate] Partly Cloudy ~ 65°F  
High: 64°F ~ Low: 48°F
Saturday, Apr. 30, 2016

Arrest made in shooting incident

Friday, November 4, 2011

POLAND -- Officials with the Clay County Sheriff's Department arrested a man in connection with a shooting at a rural Clay County home Sunday, Oct. 30.

According to officials, John Bromagen, 58, Poland, was arrested and preliminarily charged with Criminal Recklessness (a Class D felony).

After a report containing close to 100 pages of narratives, photographs, statements, criminal history reports and diagrams was presented to the Clay County Prosecutor's Office, the prosecutor forwarded a probable cause statement requesting the arrest.

According to information provided by the department, at approximately 6:15 p.m., Oct. 30, officials responded to a 911 call from the Bromagen residence, 7629 E. Private Rd. N., Poland.

Officials stated prior to the 911 call, two men, Kenneth Receveur and Christopher Irvin, both of Whiteland, were in the Poland area working on a camping trailer near the Bromagen residence.

Officials said Receveur and Irvin allegedly drove onto the Bromagen property. According to Clay County Sheriff's Department Chief Deputy Rob Gambill, the investigation revealed Cathy Bromagen had "yelled" at the two men as they drove by her residence earlier, believing they were driving too fast on the road.

Gambill said Receveur got out of his vehicle and met with both Cathy and John Bromagen asking if an RV on the property was for sale.

An altercation ensued, involving Cathy Bromagen, Receveur and the Bromagen's son, Joshua, who had just arrived at the residence. Eventually, it escalated out of control.

During the incident, Irvin got out of the vehicle and picked up a metal pipe. According to information provided by authorities, Bromagen said Irvin started toward him with the pipe.

Bromagen entered his residence, and witnesses reported Irvin used the pipe to bust out a window and screen at the front door of the home.

According to the report, Bromagen then got a .22 caliber rifle and went outside and shot it into the air.

After the fighting stopped, witnesses stated the two men said they intended to get guns as well.

Officials said Bromagen believed both were attempting to find guns in their vehicle so he continued to fire shots at the vehicle.

One of the first rounds fired struck the front windshield. According to officials, Bromagen said the vehicle took off and was "spinning in circles."

Bromagen said the vehicle finally drove away from the property and he immediately shot out the back windows of the automobile.

During the shooting, Receveur was struck in the face with glass or bullet fragments.

An investigation of the vehicle concluded it had been struck at least five, and possibly six times by rounds from the rifle.

"The investigation was very convoluted and arrests weren't immediately made," Gambill said.

Bromagen was arrested Friday afternoon and taken to the Clay County Justice Center.

Officials indicated charges on others involved in the incident have been requested.


Comments
Note: The nature of the Internet makes it impractical for our staff to review every comment. If you feel that a comment is offensive, please Login or Create an account first, and then you will be able to flag a comment as objectionable. Please also note that those who post comments on thebraziltimes.com may do so using a screen name, which may or may not reflect a website user's actual name. Readers should be careful not to assign comments to real people who may have names similar to screen names. Refrain from obscenity in your comments, and to keep discussions civil, don't say anything in a way your grandmother would be ashamed to read.

Huh? That whole story reads like stereo instructions. Was he protecting his home or did he start it?

-- Posted by dxrs0 on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 8:24 PM

the way the story reads. He was protecting his own property and he got arrested. This is crazy...

-- Posted by xray on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 9:31 PM

Due to my position with the Clay County Sheriff's Department, I don't frequently post in the comment section of these stories, and I apologize if anybody feels that it is inappropriate for me to do it here. I wrote the press release that this news story was based on and I was also one of the investigators on this case. It was one of the more peculiar cases that I've been involved with in the last 20 years and there were many things to consider when submitting the case report to the prosecutor. One poster mentioned that the story read like stereo instructions, and they're right. However, with so many significant events taking place in such a short period of time, it was difficult to write the press release in such a way as to not be confusing.

One thing we had to consider in this case is what is commonly known as the Castle Doctrine or Castle Rule, named for the common saying, "a man's home is his castle." The castle doctrine gives people the right to protect themselves and others from attack, especially in their own home and on their property. The law in the state of Indiana allows you to protect yourself and others until the threat ceases. The issue that caused Mr. Bromagen to get into some trouble was that he chose to fire his weapon after the threat had ceased. Mr. Bromagen told investigators that as the vehicle was driving away he decided to shoot out the rear windows of the vehicle. He said that he did this in order to "mark" the vehicle so the police would be able to find it easier.

According to Mr. Bromagen's account of the events and the accounts given by others present, the rounds that he fired through the rear window were fired as the people he was protecting his family from were retreating from the scene. The shots, according to Mr. Bromagen, weren't fired to protect himself or others, but to mark the vehicle. Those of you who're familiar with firearms understand that glass won't necessarily stop a bullet on impact. The rounds that Mr. Bromagen fired through the rear window traveled into the vehicle, and at least one of them impacted the front windshield. Had the passenger in the vehicle been sitting in a typical position in the front passenger seat, he'd have likely been struck in the head or neck by the round that was fired in order to mark the vehicle. We didn't feel that Mr. Bromagen was trying to kill anybody during this event, but the shots he took as the vehicle was speeding away certainly seemed reckless.

Hopefully this helps to clear things up a little and doesn't muddy the water even more.

Rob Gambill, Chief Deputy

Clay County Sheriff's Department

-- Posted by RGambill on Fri, Nov 4, 2011, at 11:30 PM

Sounds more like "Life in the new USSA" to me.

I understand the law as Officer Gambill states it, but I personally feel the law is wrong. If one threatens my life or the lives of 'mine', even if one turns and runs, one deserves to get shot in the back.

-- Posted by BKL8008 on Sat, Nov 5, 2011, at 12:42 AM

One of the "Christian" communities we're so proud of? From the altercation to some of the remarks.

-- Posted by Jenny Moore on Sat, Nov 5, 2011, at 7:59 AM

RGambill, Well done. And thank you for posting. People do need to know that there is protection and there is malicious intent.

-- Posted by dude1 on Sat, Nov 5, 2011, at 8:38 AM

"Sounds more like "Life in the new USSA" to me."??

Didn't do so well in Geography or History 101 I see.

-- Posted by Matt Dillion on Sat, Nov 5, 2011, at 11:20 AM

Rob thanks for clearing that up. It does make sense why he was charged now.Good job to Rob and all the CCSD. As the saying goes you will never please everyone so they will find fault with the ruling.The mans words were what done him in. All though I dont blame him for what he did. But you dont shot some one in the back(or Back window)Thats just wrong.Thats like bringing a gun to a knife fight.

-- Posted by kd323 on Sat, Nov 5, 2011, at 12:42 PM

Good job Chief!

-- Posted by appaloosa queen on Sat, Nov 5, 2011, at 8:19 PM

Jenny.... "Christian" has Nothing to do with this. I know many farm, church communities that go to church every Sunday. I can tell you do not live or are from the country. Many a family was fed from hunting and from the farm. Do Not use Christianity in your responses. Please...Unless you are from the farm and know what farmers go through you have no clue.

With that said. Shotguns and rifles are part of the farming community. Just the way of life.

Go back to your Left Wing agenda on "Smoking" and how the government should tell us how to live our lives.

-- Posted by xray on Sat, Nov 5, 2011, at 9:56 PM

@Bob is Clueless, I am not sure what part of this article set you off. No place in the article, or even the comments, has anyone complained about gun control, except you.

This article simply explains that an arrest was made, because an overzealous gun owner didn't know when to fire, or when not to fire.

I am an advocate of the right to bear arms for personal protection, as well as hunting. But, as Mr Gambill was kind enough to explain, there is a line that can be crossed between protecting yourself and being negligent.

If found guilty of what this person has been charged with, he acted reckless, and stands to hinder efforts of fighting tough gun control laws. So, rather than direct your hostility towards the people commenting here, or the law enforcement that did their job, you should actually be angry at the person in this article. It is actions such as his that stand to cause good people like ourselves to lose our right to bear arms.

For the record, if you do your homework, you will find that the vast majority of law enforcement and public safety sector are also against gun control laws that serve to remove guns from honest people.

-- Posted by Oldtown on Sun, Nov 6, 2011, at 12:05 AM

Stills sounds terrible to me that Mr. B was

charged. Doesnt the story also say the men

intended to get guns of their own. It is not

like this man is a police officer. How can

he be sure when it is"over".

Not sure which his sadder. His arrest or

Ms. Moored comments.

-- Posted by patriotgames on Sun, Nov 6, 2011, at 6:17 PM

The 2nd admend says that a well regulated militia is to be kept.IE the INDIANA NATIONAL GUARD! And to unluck the arms room door in case of emergency! Not to show the Police evidence to make their case Yea I'll just shoot out his window and alert the police,really. So any one on that road is a target. intended or not.I think this case shows of clear evidence that we need to work toghter and save a childs life. RIP Youth of America.I love my country but I don't want to be shot to death by some nut job either.

-- Posted by Combat VET on Sun, Nov 6, 2011, at 9:25 PM

For the record I am not referring to anyone in the story. Mr B that is.

-- Posted by Combat VET on Sun, Nov 6, 2011, at 9:27 PM

First of all the driveway looked like gravel to me, at least in the video from the news. I think anyine could have picked up a rock and busted out the back window rather than a shot from a gun that you can't be 100% sure where that bullet is going to end up when it hits.

Second if he had time to shoot out the back then anyone would have had time to remember a licence plate number. knowbody needs to get away with marking a vehicle for police in this way. From the story it sounds like these men would not have been hard to track down. If they were working in the area it sounds like someone had to know who they were. You don't just drive to Poland from Whiteland on a road trip to find something to do for the day!

Whiteland is 66.5 miles from Poland so leads me to believe that someone in Poland knew these people and had them there for work. My point being if you want to give the police info on finding these guys tell them the details of the vehicle including plate number a decription of vehicle and where they had been working at. NOT well I want to try to mark the vehicle so you could find it with several bullets in it.

If they were in the Poland area working on a camping trailer near the Bromagen residence. I am pretty sure there would have been fingerprints from the two that the police could have used too. Come on some of you posters on here. Think a little harder before you try to post on here about how the police do there jobs. They are here to protect us too and its sounds like that is just what they have done. Mr. Mr. Bromagen is someone else who needs some lessons on firearms and when and where they need to be used for protection and how to use them.

-- Posted by soccerdadwithattitude1 on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 7:58 AM

Thanks, Rob Gambill. You explained it perfectly (maybe type slower next time for those who don't understand the law. ; ). I agree with the right to protect my castle, but disagree with Mr. B continuing to fire after the threat had passed - and especially in the back!

Mr. B had no right to "assume" these guys were going to threaten anyone else. Call the police and let them do their job. As they did in this case.

Good call on the arrest.

-- Posted by Emmes on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 11:50 AM

SOCCERDAD .. I'd like you to try throwing a rock at a speeding vehicle traveling down a dusty, gravel road and see if you can bust out the back window. lol

Or you could re-read the article:

"Bromagen said the vehicle finally drove away from the property and he immediately shot out the back windows of the automobile."

-- Posted by Emmes on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 11:53 AM

I can't help but laugh at a couple of the comments here. For example:

***I reported a shooting in this county and I was ran out of town on a rail for doing so With the assistance of the CCSD, I HAD TO MOVE AND SELL MY HOUSE.***

Really? You reported someone being shot and were then forced to sell your home and leave town, by our local law enforcement? I seriously doubt this, and wonder why you would not turn around and report the law enforcement.

By the way, it was nice of CCSD to "assist" you in selling your house. I didn't know they were into real estate.

Here is another:

***Well I'm concerned with all the shootings going on here and it seems to me some one is sweeping the story under the rug.***

All of what shootings? Really, I would like to be enlightened on the huge number of shootings in Clay County. I can remember a few, but hardly enough to be considered abnormally high when compared to surrounding communities.

-- Posted by Oldtown on Wed, Nov 2, 2011, at 8:03 PM Laugh if u want. But it's all true

-- Posted by Combat VET on Mon, Nov 7, 2011, at 12:26 PM

Sounds like the wife instagated the whole thing because she thought someone was driving to fast

a drama queen again!

-- Posted by METO on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 4:41 PM

METO...I believe I know who you are based on your "drama queen" remark, which is what you posted on your Facebook account. If I'm right, it's pretty sad that you're talking about your step-mother and REAL father who is the one who was charged...pretty sad for a son!

With respect to METO's comment about driving too fast, I agree with Mrs. Bromagen. I, too, live in the country and the speed limits for PAVED county roads are usually 50 mph unles duely noted. Gravel roads are much lower due to more danger from loss of control of the vehicle AND flying rocks/debris that can cause harm to those close to the road or their property/animals. Plain common sense, which you must lack.

With respect to the reporter and the detectives/investigators reports/comments, neither bothered to mentioned that BOTH that were assaulted (Mr. & Mrs Bromagen) are disabled!!! Both have had back surgeries and have screws/rods in their backs as well as many other disabling conditions. It's pretty sad that an approximately 300 lb. man can throw a 116 lb. DISABLED WOMAN around like a rag doll...what a man, more of a punk/sissy if you ask me! What happened to the good old fashioned morals, integrity, and respect this country was founded on? A MAN simply doesn't hit a woman! Times change but morals/ethics don't...look it up in the Bible, it's GOD's WORD, which has survived MORE THAN 2000 yrs. and is what our LAWS are based on!

And how do you take down a license plate number when you have a crazy guy spinning circles in your yard, trying to hit you after he's already beat the crap out of you with your bad backs, throwing debri up from the spinning tires...I don't think I'd stand very close to the vehicle either and would run for cover. When you have rods and screws in your backs, it makes it difficult to move fast...I know cuz I'm in same situation and seeing a neurosurgeon about it! So, you do what you have to do. I don't agree with the constant shooting, but I would do, as I know almost everyone would do, what it takes to protect my family. Also consider the fact that after a traumatic event like that, who would be in their right mind! Be honest with yourselves!

I wasn't there to witness all this but I know someone who was...God! He knows all and everyone involved will face Him first when they die...He will provide the proper and right justice for all! Just some food for thought!

-- Posted by WWJD4U on Tue, Nov 8, 2011, at 8:48 PM

One last comment...kudos to Mr. & Mrs. Bromagens' son Joshua for trying to protect and defend his disabled parents from the brutes that assaulted them! Joshua took a major beating and had to have an MRI done to check for a concussion from being kicked several times in the head and also being choked. Now that's a true son who sincerely loves his parents, unlike the other son who wants to bash his step-mother...who, by the way, raised him as her own. And now they've taken Joshua's hunting rifle from him too, even though his wasn't used in the altercation...pretty sad circumstances but Joshua is a hero in my book who not only tryed to help save his parents but has also helped the city of Poland & others as a volunteer firefighter and EMT...where is his justice? He loves to hunt too and now his right to bear arms has been taken from him too! I know the law states that all firearms are to be removed from the household but will he ever get his back? He's being punished too for trying to help...very, very sad. I hope the prosecutor, defense attorney, judge, etc take all this into consideration. I'm praying daily for all of you...may God open everyone's eyes.

-- Posted by WWJD4U on Thu, Nov 10, 2011, at 1:55 AM

Deputy Gambill's explanation is greatly appreciated. It was indeed bad judgement on the part of Mr. Bromagen to fire on the car as it was retreating. Because of this officials probably had little choice but to arrest him.

However if his son was beaten as badly as it sounds like he was, then he reacted pretty much as anyone who loves his family would react when they are attacked and injured. I certainly hope it winds up with he and his family getting their firearms back and the charges dropped. After all, these same men who attacked them may come back now that they know they have no means to defend themselves.

-- Posted by bowman on Fri, Nov 11, 2011, at 10:34 PM

WWJD4U said, "With respect to METO's comment about driving too fast, I agree with Mrs. Bromagen. I, too, live in the country and the speed limits for PAVED county roads are usually 50 mph unles duely noted. Gravel roads are much lower due to more danger from loss of control of the vehicle AND flying rocks/debris that can cause harm to those close to the road or their property/animals."

Clay County roads are, by default, 55mph unless otherwise posted...including gravel roads. Gravel roads do not have a lower speed limit, again, unless otherwise posted.

On another note: I'm amazed at how many assumptions are being made here. I can say with surety...many of you are posting things that are so far off base.

Thank you Chief Deputy Rob Gambill for explaining things better, the press release didn't do the story justice.

And oh yeah, way to advertise for the family that the firearms were siezed from the household. If anyone is responsible for the realization of this...it's those of you who posted those silly comments.

-- Posted by flycatcher on Sat, Nov 12, 2011, at 5:39 AM

Rob Gambill for Clay County Sheriff.

-- Posted by Combat VET on Wed, Nov 16, 2011, at 9:38 PM

This is why you don't miss - if he killed him he wouldn't be in jail right now.

-- Posted by KeyboardWarrior on Thu, Nov 17, 2011, at 8:29 AM

I think it is very sad that people who dont know what Really happened can write crap like they do as far as the bromengers being supposibky disable that has nothing to do with this and the person invoiled dosent weigh anything near 300 lb,They think they own the lane and go nuts whenever ant=yone drives down there,get over it that sure dosent give you the right to shoot or even cuss people out,dont like it move toa paved road,as for the son i think he was just showing off for his friends they all acted out of control they all should be in jail for battery and attemted murder,I think its sad that no other arrests have been made,once again justice wasnt served,The fact is that mr receiver layed in a ditch waiting on EMT while they were at the bromengers house,police went from receiver to the B house and didnt bother to tell emt to go to him,someone droped the ball and thank god he didnt die.whats it going to take next time?are they going to get away with murder cause thats probabaly going to happen next time

-- Posted by christine1969 on Fri, Nov 18, 2011, at 10:51 AM

Flycatcher ... YOU should do YOUR research before YOU make assumptions and FALSE statements. Just spoke to the Clay County Sheriffs Dept and here are the LEGAL SPEED LIMIT GUIDELINES for Clay County: By "DEFAULT", the "default" speed limit for Clay County roads is 45mph!!! If speed limit is "posted", it'll be 45mph for county roads, if NOT posted, it is still legally 45 mph but, they will stop you if going 55 mph. So if NOT posted, you can ASSUME its 55 mph but you take the chance of being stopped! Break down the word ASSUME IN 3 sections!

So as far as you stating that many people are posting things that are "...so far off base" and also say "I can say with SURETY...", on here (emphasis added), you need to consider ALL the facts! This is what started the whole tragic incident. Note the facts printed in the articles...car speeding down road and Mrs. Bromagen "yelled" for them to slow down, BUT it didn't say that she INVITED them onto her property (which I don't believe she would have done), where the altercation took place! Come on, use common sense here! This is how it all started, so it IS pertinent information!

With respect to your comment about seizing firearms and letting everone know that the family is without weapons, THAT TOO IS THE LAW...no weapons permitted in household when weapons are involved in any illegal activity...look it up! It's not a "silly" comment, it's a KNOWN FACT! Yeah, while it may have opened up the vulnerability for the Bomagen family, this is where the neighbors and your POLICE dept needs to step up to the plate and make their presence known! And keep in mind, guns aren't the only way to protect yourself and your family...!

-- Posted by WWJD4U on Fri, Nov 18, 2011, at 11:19 AM

Chritine1969...it's apparent that you're friends with the assailants. And with respect to your comment about people writing crap on here, you weren't there to witness the incident either and are only hearing the AssaultERS side of the story...there are 2 sides or more to every incident! And, apparently you live on the same road if you know about the cussing and the bromagens acting like they own the lane down there! Well, if you don't live past them and if the road is a dead-end, you shouldn't have any reason or need to drive down there. From what I understand, each homeowner is responsible for providing the "rock" for the road in front of their homes so, I'd want it to last cuz it's not cheap...it belongs on the road, not splattered in yards from careless drivers. And by law, they have the "right" to enjoy peace in AND around their property...It's real estate LAW! I know...I'm a broker! They don't have to move to a paved road...they have the right to live where they want.

As far as the son showing off...you don't have a clue! He wasn't present when it started...he came home with A friend to see his mom being thrown around. It's pretty sad that you would judge him when he wasn't there at the start of the altercation!

And you're right...more arrests should have been made... The 2 assailants should have been arrested on the spot as the altercation started on the bromagens property, where your friends the assaulters, were NOT invited, and where THEY started the PHYSICAL altercation! Yes, THEY were out of control!

With respect to Mr. Receiver (sp?), police found him in vehicle down the road, not in a ditch! More than likely, they had him get out of vehicle and lay down til ambulance arrived. Apparently, if he were left alone, which is highly unlikely, it's because the wound wasn't life threatening and the police needed to get to the "shooter" to begin the investigation and/or apprehension. Police weren't even certain if it was a bullet or glass fragments that wounded him at first. So, if you believe the story you were told, then put the blame where it belongs...on the police IF Mr. Receiver (sp?) was left alone in ditch where you say he was found! Mr. Bromagen may have caused the injury but he didn't leave him alone in ditch!

And you're right in saying what's it gonna take the next time...if everyone acted like they were supposed to, meaning with proper morals that are what God's Word and our laws are based on, then there shouldn't BE a next time...it shouldn't happen again and hopefully, every has learned something from this...unfortunately, the hard way!

It's a sad shame that we can't live peaceably and respectfully of one another...but that day will come soon...Praise God

-- Posted by WWJD4U on Fri, Nov 18, 2011, at 12:39 PM

great explanation of the facts, rob. the smartest thing that the property owner could have done; was to dust their junky butts off the minute the pipe was brought into play. (the pipe creating a threat of serious bodily injury) due to the fact that they were allegedly fleeing,(in my opinion)still does NOT eliminate the threat or the fear. when wittnesses said the perps stated they were going to get guns; they were actually continuing the threat and it was valid. who can say that the perps; would not have came back with weapons. this senerio would create a situation of fear and instability; until the individuals were apprehended or dead (once dead - no more threat).

roger la plante - your comment "rob gambil for sheriff" is correct. he should have been sheriff a long time ago.

we all have constitutional rights that can NOT be taken from us. the right to protect yourself, home,family and third parties from harm. recently, the us supreme court was very clear and correct when they found that the 2nd amendment's intent, applied to the peoples' rights. not the state.

these type of situations that could happen, is why i bought my wife a real nice springfield 1911. she has been clearly instructed that if the situation arises; (1)empty her clip, (2) reload, (3)then dial 911 and tell them to bring the coroner and a clean-up crew with them.

if the property owner fired a hundred rounds and only 5-6 hit the vehicle; that is reckless. if he only fired 5-6 and all of them hit their target; then that is gun control.

if anyone would like to discuss this in person feel free to contact me: mark bedwell 812-691-6176

-- Posted by madmarkbedwell on Mon, Nov 21, 2011, at 7:00 AM

Mark thank you for agreeing with me on the Rob Gambill for Sheriff issue. The people of Clay county need to know that Sheriff Heaton is a fraud. He has ignored repeatedly my calls to his office about a assault and intimidation through shooting at my home by the president of the HOA. I was forced to move out of my home by the sugar ridge HOMEOWNERS ASSN AND BY sheriff HEATONS INACTION. I moved my family to California where we can be safe. I am now back in Indiana where my combat service gives me the right to live in Indiana. Why DID THE Clay county SHERIFF NOT DO HIS JOB? AND PROTECT MY FAMILY?

-- Posted by Combat VET on Mon, Nov 21, 2011, at 9:42 AM

Rob Gambill for Clay County Sheriff. He is a fair man. So I have been told.

-- Posted by Combat VET on Mon, Nov 21, 2011, at 9:46 AM

WWJD4U wrote "Flycatcher ... YOU should do YOUR research before YOU make assumptions and FALSE statements. Just spoke to the Clay County Sheriffs Dept and here are the LEGAL SPEED LIMIT GUIDELINES for Clay County: By "DEFAULT", the "default" speed limit for Clay County roads is 45mph!!! If speed limit is "posted", it'll be 45mph for county roads, if NOT posted, it is still legally 45 mph but, they will stop you if going 55 mph. So if NOT posted, you can ASSUME its 55 mph but you take the chance of being stopped!"

*****ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT INFORMATION*****

Indiana Code 9-21-5 states that unless it's an urban zone, interstate highway, or otherwise posted, the DEFAULT speed limit IS 55 mph. So, I'm not sure who you talked to, but call them back and tell them to read IC 9-21-5. It's black and white. It's THE LAW! (LOL because this was your comment to me initially)

And...WWJD4U wrote "So as far as you stating that many people are posting things that are "...so far off base" and also say "I can say with SURETY...", on here (emphasis added), you need to consider ALL the facts! This is what started the whole tragic incident. Note the facts printed in the articles...car speeding down road and Mrs. Bromagen "yelled" for them to slow down, BUT it didn't say that she INVITED them onto her property (which I don't believe she would have done), where the altercation took place! Come on, use common sense here! This is how it all started, so it IS pertinent information!"

*****Missed Target*****

I'm not sure where all this came from...but I wasn't referring to this when I made mention of the comments being off-base.

Oh yeah, and someone entering your property, even uninvited, DOES NOT automatically give you authority to use deadly force against them.

WWJD4U, way to let your light shine. MATT 5.16

-- Posted by flycatcher on Tue, Nov 22, 2011, at 5:21 AM

FLYCATCHER wrote...

("*****ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT INFORMATION*****

Indiana Code 9-21-5 states that unless it's an urban zone, interstate highway, or otherwise posted, the DEFAULT speed limit IS 55 mph. So, I'm not sure who you talked to, but call them back and tell them to read IC 9-21-5. It's black and white. It's THE LAW! (LOL because this was your comment to me initially)"... End of quote.

While Indiana Code may govern the "state of Indiana", each county also has county governments that can change or improve upon the law to better serve and suit their individual countys' needs! Yes, it'll have to go thru due process and voting to amend it, but it can be done! The safety of its citizens and/or visitors as well as what's best for the county and within the countys budget is "normally" the local governments priority. Also, the courts, even if it was the HIGHEST state court (Supreme Court), would consider ALL the facts, as they apply to "local" AND state" laws. While "Indiana State Laws / Indiana Code may supersede local laws, it's the judges decision to apply the laws as specified and make his decision, OR he can set a NEW PRESEDENT, or remand it back to the county court for re-examination. So...there ARE local laws set by each county government that can amend IC to better serve their county as each county is different! IC is the "basis" for lack of a better word, to amend local laws as long as they do not completely refute the IC.

As an example to help you better understand, consider this scenario: If your county roads are prone to or known to flood constantly or be in flood zones, or perhaps cheaply made due to lack of funding for road repairs, then county government has the right to "amend" the law to suit their county's and citizens safety. I don't think the county would want to be sued if for example, someone flying down a flooded road or hits a big crater in the road at 55 mph, crashes, and is severely injured and/or death occurs due to the county's negligence in keeping roads repaired or has SUITABLE SPEED LIMITS, the county "negligently" fails to amend their laws to fit county needs and safety. Remember, this is just an "example". I'm not saying its the way your roads are...keep an open mind. I can offer several more examples if you need.

FLYCATCHER also wrote, "(LOL because this was your comment to me initially)." Its extremely sad that you think this is a laughing matter...pretty sad. Speaks volumes of your character! This is definitely not something I, or most "normal" people would find hilarious...this has hurt many lives, not just one!

FLYCATCHER also wrote in 2 different posts: "Oh yeah, and someone entering your property, even uninvited, DOES NOT automatically give you authority to use deadly force against them."...and in an earlier post, he writes, "And oh yeah, way to advertise for the family that the firearms were siezed from the household. If anyone is responsible for the realization of this...it's those of you who posted those silly comments."

With respect to these 2 comments, it sounds like Flycatcher enjoys "bragging rights". Hope you're enjoying yourself! It IS the law to seize all weapons...I wasn't "advertising" that they were without weapons, YOU did when you made it a "MAIN" focus at the end of your post! As I said earlier, there are more ways to protect yourself! Weapons come in many shapes and forms...sometimes words alone will do the trick! Constructive criticism, even if meant in a good way, can light a fire in some people! And with respect to your other comment about not being invited still doesn't give you the authority to use deadly force...you seem to have forgotten some of the facts. You're right, not being "invited" as I had said does not give you the right to use deadly force. What DOES give you the right is when you're being assaulted and on your own property to boot!!! The gun didn't come into play until AFTER the beatings started happening and one of the assaulters came at them with a pipe and threatened to get THEIR guns from the vehicle. It's apparent that these guys were looking for some trouble because...why would you intentionally go on someone's property after they just "yelled" at you to slow it down? That's the mentality of someone looking for a fight!

And if you want to quote the Bible, which is very precious to me, make sure you truly "understand" the FULL meaning of the verse! Don't just take "pieces" of a verse and use it in an ugly way! That's demeaning to God. So, read the FULL verse and truly meditate on it, then maybe you'll really get its meaning! I'll post it here so you'll have full access:

Matthew 5:16. "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."

My only intent in posting on here was to make sure people were getting the other side of the story and some of the facts that were never mentioned in any of the articles. It was also my intent to try to have people open both eyes, have compassion, understanding, seek forgiveness, and not pass judgement...put your trust in God. After all, true vengeance will come from God...Romans 12:19 "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord" We're all human and plagued with sin...but we can choose the high road that leads to the Father or choose the low road that leads to hell. Yes, I'm human and plagued with sin just like everyone else, and have done wrong in some of my postings on here as I let my "self" get in the way of God's Word but I've repented to Him and know He's forgiven me...can you say that with certainty?

-- Posted by WWJD4U on Tue, Nov 22, 2011, at 3:17 PM

No church for me this Sunday.

-- Posted by Emmes on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 12:03 PM

Stay on topic wwjd4me.

-- Posted by Combat VET on Wed, Nov 23, 2011, at 4:45 PM

Roger La Plante...I AM on topic. I'm discussing the incident that took place and replying to the comments that are directed to me to negate the facts of the story.

You, on the other hand want to talk politics, and your military background, and because of your military history,you have the right to live here, and how Sheriff Heaton is a fraud and how he was partially responsible for you having to sell your house and move to CA...what does any of that have to do with this incident? Absolutely Nothing!!!

First of all, this is not a "voting forum" for "Rob Gambill for Sheriff"...this is about an assault with deadly force and a man protecting his family. It's not about politics...so, you need to stay on topic!!

Second, your military background has nothing to do with you having the right to live here AND ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with this incident. EVERYONE that is a US CITIZEN has the "right" to live here....PERIOD!

Third...I am one that definitely appreciates and supports our military 100%! My father gave 20 yrs of his life in the army! He fought in WWII and the Korean War. He has several medals, including the bronze star. We grew up listening to him cry out and scream with horrific nightmares almost nightly...PTSD, but i guess that wasnt important back in those days or probably not even heard of. He also lost his hearing in one ear but he continued to serve his country for 20 long years, AND without the advanced technology that they have now-a-days. I have tons of black and white photos to prove it!

My uncle (my dads brother) also served in WWII! He was only in for a short time as he got separated from his platoon and was lost for 6 mos in the jungle fending for himself and destroying enemy camps. He earned a purple heart for his valor and when they finally found him, he had to be brought out in a straight jacket and lived the rest of his life as a vegetable in the VA Hospital in Marion, IN as they did electric shock treatments as well as a lobotomy on his brain to try to remove and fix his violent and fearful nature! It didn't work...it only made him unable to live a normal and independent life! He went in as a normal teen and came out seeing everyone as the enemy and then lived the rest of his life as a disabled man who couldn't think for himself or recognize his family.!

I also have 2 nephews that just got out of the Army after serving 7 yrs. for one and 4 yrs. for the other...both of them joined right after high school and served in Operation Freedom in Iraq immediately after 9/11!

To continue the military familial ties, I also HAD a brother in law who gave over 30 yrs. of HIS life. He served in the Vietnam War and we all know how those brave men were treated when they returned home! He committed suicide 2 yrs. ago! So, as I said, military issues don't concern this case and don't even go there with me about your "rights" as a veteran!

STAY ON TOPIC!!!

And my username is WWJD4U...NOT WWJD4me! I already know what Jesus has done AND will continue to do for me...do you?

SO...YOU need to stay on topic...not play your political agenda, military history, etc as they have nothing to do with this case! And yes...this time I really got off target talking about my familial background with military and I apologize for that but you brought it up so I was just responding to your comment just like i do with everyone else's comments that are directed to me. And with respect to you, i was responding to your comment directed to me about WHO needs to stay on topic! You do!

-- Posted by WWJD4U on Thu, Nov 24, 2011, at 1:55 AM

Emmes...that's your loss & your choice! Sounds like you don't go anyway if you can be sarcastic just because I wrote a few scripture verses. Truth hurts, doesn't it?!?

-- Posted by WWJD4U on Thu, Nov 24, 2011, at 2:12 AM

Roger La Plant... My apologies to you as I re-read your earlier post where you quoted someone ELSE being run out of town. I read it as YOU being forced out of town and having to sell your house...I apologize for my error.

-- Posted by WWJD4U on Thu, Nov 24, 2011, at 2:21 AM

Roger La Plant... I stand corrected again...it WAS you that was ran out of town by the HOA and moved to CA but came back because of your combat service which you state gives you the right to live here! Sooo...my original response stands....EVERYONE who is a US Citizen has the right to live anywhere in the US! So...stay on topic as this has nothing to do with this case!!! You're talking politics and your military service, neither of which concerns this case.

Take your own advice and stay on topic!

-- Posted by WWJD4U on Thu, Nov 24, 2011, at 2:35 AM

wwjd thank you for all your family's service. Happy thanksgiving to you.

-- Posted by Combat VET on Thu, Nov 24, 2011, at 9:25 AM

Roger La Plant....I thank and greatly appreciate YOU and EVERY service man or woman for their service to live a life of freedom! Happy Thansgiving to you and your family!

-- Posted by WWJD4U on Thu, Nov 24, 2011, at 9:47 AM

My comment are on topic. My situation is fact. I was shot at by the HOA president and the CCSD DID COVER IT UP WHEN one of CC finest was caught in a bar discussing my case with the defendant who accosted me and my family. This man drove onto my property shot at us and then assaulted me while he was intoxicated! And to top it off the man was in his company truck (MISCO)There were no arrests were made and the DA was also involved! If this liable or slander bring it because this is all true and I can prove it. There is no such thing as property rights in CC!

-- Posted by Combat VET on Sun, Nov 27, 2011, at 9:58 AM

Oh and BTW the same man and his infamous company truck that says MISCO ON THE SIDE DOOR. SHOT ROCKS ALL OVER DAUGHTERS CAR WHILE THEY WERE DRIVING THROUGH our sub division a short time later. After reporting him many times The CC sheriff ignored our reports so Yes I had to move my family to safety.

-- Posted by Combat VET on Sun, Nov 27, 2011, at 10:04 AM

So as a citizen of CC I demand the CC Sheriff resign! I am not a politician yet!

-- Posted by Combat VET on Sun, Nov 27, 2011, at 10:08 AM

Roger...I never said your story wasn't true. It sounds like your story is very similar to this case with the only difference being that you didn't do the shooting, the perps did and you chose to move to protect your family. With that said, I can sympathize with you, honestly. I can't agree nor disagree with the police or DA cover up because I don't know all the facts nor do I have the proof, BUT, if that were the case then you should have gone higher up in law enforcement (state police maybe) or filed a law suit for a formal investigation with the AG (Attorney General) or the higher court or made contact with IA (Internal Affairs). If you have the proof, then you probably would have won your case or at least gotten SOMEONE'S attn. You could have even contacted TV station investigators...who, if they think its a valid complaint, they maybe could have helped. No one should have to move from their home due to lack of proper police protection.

With respect to property rights, there ARE rights in every county of the USA. I'm a licensed (although not currently active) real estate broker with a license issued by the State of Indiana! So...you do have rights...check with the IPLA (Indiana Professional Licensing Agency) or any Real Estate Attorney...they can or could of helped or directed you in how to handle the situation.

YOU'RE the one that told ME to stay on topic first when I was debating Flycathers comments about IC (Indiana Code) and speed limits, in which he falsely stated and left out some of the facts that related to this case. I was responding to HIS comments to me. But then you went off on a tangent about your military service gave you the right to live here and that the sheriff was a fraud, then posting "Rob Gamble for Sheriff". So this is why I refuted YOUR comment to me about staying on topic. Simply being a US Citizen gives you the right to live ANYWHERE in the US...your "combat service history" doesn't. I'm thankful for your service...very, very thankful but it's your citizenship that technically gives you your right to live anywhere in the USA. Stating that the sheriff is a fraud and posting "Rob Gamble for Sheriff" IS political, and the 1st comment can possibly get you in trouble for slander...that's a pretty big accusation, so you should be careful about what you say. And you, yourself, cannot "demand" that the sheriff be removed from office. This again is politics...the people of your county voted him in. If you want him removed, get aboard the political band wagon and work hard for his opponent for the next election period!

Again, I'm very grateful for your military service and am truly sorry if justice wasn't served in your circumstance. My prayers are with you...God Bless

-- Posted by WWJD4U on Mon, Nov 28, 2011, at 1:33 AM

Robert La Plant....I'm a little confused and befuddled right now. After my earlier post to you, you thanked me for my family's service and wished me a Happy Thanksgiving and I, in turn, returned the greeting. Mine was meant truthfully as I always speak from the heart and with all honesty. But then you come back with a kind of testy and ugly post...I pray that your anger and frustration will be lifted from you...and that you can find peace within your heart as I too, pray for peace within my heart...sincerely. WWJD4U

-- Posted by WWJD4U on Mon, Nov 28, 2011, at 2:00 AM


Respond to this story

Posting a comment requires free registration: